#PartOfMePodcast – Episode 11: Peter on Making Sport Inclusive

Esi :

Welcome to thePart Of Me celebrating disability podcasts with disabled people, talking about their experiences of being in the workplace, looking at the goods, the Bads, the amazing, the downright ugly, disabled people bring a wealth of experiences, skills into the work environment. This podcast is designed for listeners to understand the benefits of supporting a disabled employee to achieve. Hello and thank you very much. There are lots of myths and misconceptions surrounding disabilities that can prevent an employer seeing the benefits of having a disabled person in the world. Both was it. In this podcast, we will talk to disabled people from a variety of career backgrounds to discover how they manage that stability of work, sharing advice to managers and other disabled people to ensure inclusion.

Hello everybody. Thank you again for joining us for another podcast. Parts of me. This is episode 11. Now, pause me and we’re here with our 11th interviewing, so we’re just going to get straight on with it. As with every podcast, if you have any comments or questions after this podcast is that we would love to hear from them and I’d love to know how you feel and what, who do you think that you would like to hear next? So please do get in touch with any comments were interviewing will be passed along as well. So we’re here today and I’m just going to introduce the next person. So hello. 

Peter:

Good afternoon

Esi:

Thank you very much for joining us today. 

Peter:

Pleasure

Esi:

Can I just ask who you are and what you do?

Peter:

My name is Peter hull. I’m 52 I live in Southampton, which sounds like a dating app I was born with, with no legs and my arms, arms ending at the elbow. I’m not thalidomide. Some people consider I am, but I’m actually too young for that is similar during the symptoms. From a very young age, I was encouraged to be to be physically active, I became very much aware that I’m gonna be very reliant on my upper body to do pretty much everything, from eating, drinking, dressing, getting around, is all going to be, it’s all going to be through my through my upper body, any of swimming that I took up, it’s good around exercise, good cardiovascular exercise, so good for your heart and lungs. Yeah, usually major, major muscle, muscle groups. Long story short, it’s encouraged to competition. And went on to compete as a junior and as a senior, got selected to represent my country, the 88 soul Paralympics.

Esi:

Wow

Peter:

which was, was a bit of a mind blowing exercise.

Esi:

Yeah, i can imagine

Peter:

You know my swimming up until then it all just going to local guys and stuff. So to actually be identified as being good enough to represent the country, you know, was quite, quite daunting. Went out competing in four races, came fourth in all my races.

Esi:

Oh my god.

Peter:

So just outside the middle, some people, regardless, probably the worst position you can get, because you’re just outside, just outside those medals.

Esi:

Okay, 

Peter:

But they’re all personal best, so that kind of motivated me. Yeah, okay, well, you know, I’d like to maybe go on to the next, next games, which, you know, all the training paid off to Barcelona in 92 Wow, and came back with three golds.

Esi:

Oh, my God, incredible. Congratulations. 20 years on

Peter:

And after, after Barcelona, I sort of took decisions or take up sort of step back from some competition. I it became very apparent to me that I my quality of life had improved, both physically, mentally and emotionally, being being physically active, and so I wanted to give something back. So I got into sports development. Okay, went back to college. I did two years studying and again, long story short, started to work. Work for the county, for Hampshire, 96/97 as their disability sports development officer, and that’s kind of what I’ve been doing ever since. Although I no longer work for the county, I now work for a charitable trust in Southampton called Active Nation, whose mission it is to get nation active, and I’m part of their active communities team. 

Esi:

Okay, 

Peter:

As a engagement coordinator. We have three programmes, activity programmes. So we’re about targeting people who for whatever reason, it may be because of an impairment, but it could be cultural barriers, could be financial barriers. They’re not active, and we’ve got these very flexible programmes that we promote so that we can get as many people outside and doing, you know, not out their homes, they can take this. There’s stuff they can do, do indoors. I mean, for example, our Get active programme is like, it’s an upgrade on the old GP referral team, and it’s health professional. Can refer, refer you. You can refer yourself and write details of your medical condition, whatever. And a tailor made programme, physical activity programme will be getting down for you, and you have to follow that. So after six weeks, someone contact you and make sure everything so. And if you know if going to gym is what you need, then great if staying at home and doing some exercises at home, if that’s what’s best for you because of you know your particular situation, and that’s the kind of programme.

Esi:

That sounds really good. So I know we’re not talking specifically about your what your work as as a job, but you know, I’m really interested, actually, so that the type of people that sign up, do they always do it on their own, or do they work in a team or

Peter:

Within the programme, we do have a have a team to support. So we have an activities workforce coordinator, and that person is responsible for setting activities up, for getting coaches and instructors in WoW, and they, you know, run activities, yes, typically for individuals, wherever needs they might, they might have, I mean, for example, another one of our programmes called active ability, okay, which is targeting disabled adults, yeah, primarily those with learning difficulties. But we’ve also got a basketball so, brilliant programme. You know, I’m a firm believer that whatever your position is, you can do, you can do something. Yeah, yeah. It’s all about identifying what you understand. A bit of a cliche these days. It’s all about what you can do and what what you know, what you can’t do, yeah,

Esi:

I think you, I think you’re right. I think the only reason I think it’s a cliche, because people say it so often, but it is true. It is true. It’s about, it’s about identifying those strengths and celebrating those strengths, rather than thinking what you can’t do, which is all the social model of disability is about anyway, isn’t it?

Peter:

Well, I mean, I mean, example I often use is, you know, football. You know football is kicking the ball with your foot. Now, if your feet don’t work, or, you know, you can’t see the ball, then your automatic assumption is you can’t, well, really, it’s simple. Thing is this, you can Yeah, simply by using different equipment, using different environments. You can, you can still play, play football. I mean, I don’t know what the last count is, but there’s using football again as an example. You’ve got, you’ve got blind football, you’ve got CP football, yeah, wheelchair football, it’s all again, focusing on strengths, yeah, individual. 

Esi:

So active nation. Is it only in Southampton, or is it nationwide?

Peter:

It’s nationwide.

Esi:

Okay

Peter:

Mainly quarters are constructed, yeah, pockets of activity around the country. By far, our biggest pocket of activity is in, is in Southampton. 

Esi:

Okay,brilliant, excellent. I’m thinking, after this, I’m going to sign up myself. So obviously, you know, afterwards, after we finish this podcast, you’ll give me some details of where people can get you to find out more, and if they have somebody they know that might want to get involved.

Peter:

Yeah. When I say, when I say, Southampton, we are branching out a little bit more now, as well into into winter spirit weekly and new forest. 

Esi:

Yeah. 

Peter:

So today, Southampton, tomorrow, the world kind of, yeah, 

Esi;

Absolutely. 

Peter:

The plan is to, you know, just to spread the word brilliant. Just let people know and cook more about what’s going on.

Esi:

That sounds great. Okay, I’m gonna ask you another question. Now, if you don’t mind, so are there any challenges to the workplace and to your work environment that you face due to your impairment?

Peter:

Offices are quite, quite small. I use a wheelchair to, you know, to get around. It’s an open plan office, but there’s a few of us. And actually moving around offices, you know, can be a bit difficult if everybody’s in the office at the same time. I use computer a lot as engagement coordinator, I like to go out and meet people, talk to people, and obviously I have to plan, yeah, and that sort of spends lots of time on the computer, on the phone. However, I also have an admin support lady called Hannah, who is basically there to make me look good, because I can do all of this stuff, it I does take me a lot longer to do it. And, yeah, and, you know, Hannah is great at all setting meetings up, you know, organising me. I’m not the best organised person in the world. And Hannah is great at sourcing, sorting me out as well. I also use voice activated software, 

Esi:

Okay

Peter:

On my on my computer. That certainly, certainly helps, you know as well. So, yeah, you know where there’s barriers, there’s solutions.

Esi:

Absolutely. So what? What kind of advice would you give to people about about the solution in the office environment, but lots of people in an office space.

Peter:

Speak to the individual. First of all, you know, find out what, what issues they have, or what I found over the years, people tend to make assumptions, quite easily. You know, I my own personal opinions. I think people will will look at me and subconsciously put themselves in my in my position. And now think quickly, how would I do this if I if I didn’t have, you know, legs, if I didn’t have hands, or whatever that you hopefully that will never, obviously never, never happen, but speak to the individual, find out what they what they can, what they can do, and consult with them and to speak as flexible.

Esi:

So I’m just thinking back specifically to what you mentioned a minute ago, when you mentioned some of the challenges that you face in the work environment. You talked about the office space, and I’m thinking, I suppose a conversation that a manager has with a disabled person might mean that actually, if you place my desk slightly at an angle, you put my chair a bit differently, or I can work in, you know, the meeting room, if it’s free, or perhaps if I come in slightly earlier, and fingers slightly earlier, it makes a massive difference if somebody can be set up to begin with. And so it doesn’t have to be, you know, expensive, you massive, like, you know, office changing.

Peter:

That can be a barrier in itself. You know, you managers, employers can panic, yeah, thinking they can. They could have this, potentially, this large bill they’ve got to do. They’ve got to make all these, all these observations and with a chat, you know, chance or trust at the end of the day. But just by simple things, just consulting and disabled the individual Army, for example, I I get around in my wheelchair. I like to get into an office chair. It gives me better support. I’m back to where my desk is. At the moment. I have got somewhere where I can park a wheelchair and transfer into a into an office, into an office chair.

Esi:

I think that’s a massive assumption. You find this massive assumption that people make as well about being a wheelchair user. So you have to be in a wheelchair all the time.

Peter:

Yeah, exactly, yeah. People automatically think that. Don’t they. I’m a view of the expression wheelchair bound makes me successful, yeah, it does, you know, tied to them

Esi:

Exactly

Peter:

Not that i get bondage now and again, That’s only on a Saturday night.

Esi:

That’s another Podcast

Peter:

Yeah that’s a whole different podcast.

Esi:

I’ll send in my colleague for that one. Brilliant. Thank you very much. And I mean what you were saying about personal assistants helping you with all sorts of things as well. I think sometimes it can be an assumption that when you have a personal assistant as a disabled person, they’re there for one reason and one reason only, but as you very well, kind of demonstrated that actually somebody can be there for all sorts of things. And personal assistants have all sorts of skills and attributes to their career qualifications, and they can bring into the workplace to assist somebody as well. So it doesn’t just have to be about the physical aspects.

Peter:

I mean, the job description is basically, you know, admin support, but also I need to go, when I go to meetings, she helps out getting the wheelchair in and out of the car, yeah, you know, if I’ve got to carry books, or if I go set up a presentation or some, you know. And I said, to help you to know, to do that. And the thing is, as well, personalities help as well. We, we clicked immediately. And I think, you know, if you got, if you can have a working relationship, I think it’s, it’s good if you make that, that connection, yeah, yeah. And, you know, so joking aside . Sometimes it’s good mates as we are, colleagues really. And you know, we do get on really well in that, in that respect, no, I if she’s got any any issues, then I say, just let me know we can talk it through and vice versa. I think having that connection, is helpful as well.

Esi:

Yeah, yeah, I think so as well, and kind of being able to communicate in that way, to be open and honest with each other and say, like you can come to talk to me, but you know, I suppose after a while you get to know somebody’s personality as well, so you can kind of tell when they’re having a down day.

Peter:

Absolutely Yeah, yeah.

Esi:

Brilliant. Thank you. Okay, so if you were going to give some advice to managers supporting a disabled person in the workplace, what do you think it might be?

Peter:

I mean, I guess, go, pick it up. What we’ve been saying, don’t make those don’t make those assumptions. 

Esi:

Yeah

Peter:

Conscious strengths and obviously that’ll come through via interviews. Okay, there may be some, some physical barriers, but focus on, on the individual, what they can bring to, you know, to your organisation, you know, if you know there are to know where their office is scheduled to be, if that’s going to create a problem, then maybe some moving, moving things, You know, make an effort to, you know, to find space organ, because they can support your organisation. And if you went again, don’t be afraid to ask, yeah, you know, I think so many people are worried about saying, saying the wrong thing. You know, you know, any of you, you go to disability equality or awareness training, very often the focus do a bit on terminology. 

Esi:

Yep. 

Peter:

And whereas I think terminology is important because it helps you to understand the derivation of certain certain words, I think it can also act as a barrier, because people are worried they’re going to say the wrong thing, so they say nothing at all.

Esi:

Absolutely 

Peter:

And so often as well, terminology changes quite, quite, you know, quite rapidly. I mean certain words sort of 20 years ago, you know, we used and nowadays just just insults, yeah, yeah, that kind of that was accepted 25 years ago, whereas now, not so much.insults, yeah, yeah, that kind of that was accepted 25 years ago, whereas now, not so much.

Esi:

Yeah, you wouldn’t dare say now, yeah. Well, it was the spastic society, was it?

Peter:

Well, absolutely, yeah. So yeah, just and, well, whether, I mean, I sometimes I still get confused whether it’s your disabled person, a person with a disability, obviously does help with that to an extent. But again, yeah, people just get worried they’re going to say the wrong thing. And what I say to people is that if you are, if you are that kind of person, chances are if you do say something out that individual, they’re not going to necessarily bite your head off. They’ll say, I’d prefer if you didn’t use that. Yeah, could you please use another. It, yeah, you may use another term

Esi:

Or understand the intention behind, yeah, exactly.

Peter:

I mean, at the same time, you’re still going to swear them, you know, you still get those people who have got who can be really rude, and that’s that’s that society for you? Yeah? Yeah. You will get people just be blatantly face. But I think majority of people if, if you do, say the wrong word that you know, they’ll say they’ll let you know everything behind it. I think everyone’s gonna be.

Esi:

Absolutely in the last organisation I worked for before setting up celebrating disability, I did a massive project on terminology, and it actually had a really kind of good response. And loads of people wanted to get involved and wanted to be part of the debate within the organisation. And something that people were saying was, you people coming up with, I hate it when I go into town and, you know, nothing to do with disability, but I hate it when I’m in the town centre and somebody walks past me and calls me love or Babe and two. I think, yeah, I think it’s a really, it was a really helpful way of meeting it further than disability that actually terminology can affect everybody. But as you’re saying, it’s all you know. It gets in the way. Sometimes it creates a barrier in itself to people feeling confident around disabled people. So it’s almost like something you need to know and then forget about again.

Peter:

But I think I mean just not you know, within within the sort of disabled community, but people you know, I know you use the term their baby, some women that they can feel as being degraded, yeah, no sweetheart or whatever. You know, I’m not you’re sweetheart, huh, exactly, yeah. But thinking again, there’s no, there’s no malice there at all. It’s just happen to be afraid to fight that person? Yeah, yeah.

Esi:

And it can all to do with with where people come from, and the culture of the town that they’re brought up in, or kind of the generation that they are brought up and and things like that. My granddad called My granny hen, and I’d never heard that anywhere else but my granddad saying it to my granny, and it was a generation and where he came from. So yeah, it’s all those little things, but as you say, don’t mean anything bad. So if you’re saying the wrong thing, somebody will tell you, but as long as the intention is right. So what advice would you give to disabled people in the workplace.

Peter:

It’s good one. I mean, obviously not to, not to give up. Yes, there are, there are barriers, barriers out there and pursue, you know, pursue your dream and be open to discussions with with managers. You know, if they’re true to their word, they’ll want you to be part of their, part of their organisation anyway. And there is, there’s a lot of support, because I don’t think people fully appreciate the kind of support there is out there. Yes, there’s access to work you know, which can support individuals with, whether it be getting getting an admin support person, or whether they need specialist equipment, you know, someone to drive them around, whether there is a lot of support out there for for people. Again, it’s not always that easy to find, but it is, but it is, is out there, and again, don’t be don’t be afraid to ask for help. I delivered a talk to to to a conference once, and someone afterwards, and you know, and I said, there was a time as a youngster who was stubborn, I don’t need your bloody help as i have gotten older and hopefully a little bit wiser, to start to fully appreciate that we all need. Yeah, we all need help. It’s not a sign of it’s not a sign of weakness. You know, whether it’s someone you know to carry your books or someone to hold the door, but it’s someone to talk to. You know, you don’t have to be be in a wheelchair just to need need help. We all need, we all need help. And get, I guess, just to be aware that asking for help is not, is not a sign of weakness. In fact, I think it’s probably a sign of strength. Feel confident within yourself. You know, to know to ask for, to ask for help. 

Esi:

I think that’s really good advice. And actually a lot of the time, individuals, when I’m training, say to me, you should I offer a disabled person a hand? So I think that’s a really good insight into why you should always offer help to somebody, because people are worried about offending people by asking them for help, by saying we do like some help, but I think that’s a really good insight into, obviously, why disabled people should not be worried about asking for help, but also why people should not be concerned about offering help as well. So thank you for that, and we’re just going to change tune a little bit. So I want to talk to you about you as a consumer. So a consumer when you’re buying a product or a service from a business or an organisation, so that could well the product or service, so it could be something in the shop or something you buy online, or something you go to or anything. So as a disabled person, what is your biggest challenge to buying a product or service?

Peter:

Well, the first one that immediately springs to mind is getting money out of my my wallet. I hate change, as in points. Okay? Coins really, really, really fiddly. And I mean, there was a time when I would be happy getting some money out myself. Now it’s becoming increasingly more difficult. Using my shoulders all the time, I’m starting to get a bit pain and discomfort in my shoulders. So feeling around us is about comfortable. So sometimes, you know, I’ll ask, like, how to have a shoulder bag. So I keep my phone and my my wallet in and I will say, What do you can take the money out of my bag, actually, some issue comes to mind there that nobody’s comfortable doing that you know, you know, complete strangers, is asking you to take money out of there, whether they don’t always sort of feel feel comfortable doing that. When I go back to the same places, often, whether it be to, you know, to supermarket, to the pub, to a chemist or whatever, people got to know me, and that’s fine. Every time I go to a new place, I am a little bit wary, because I’m actually more, you know, worried about upsetting other people than making myself uncomfortable, because I can kind of pick up on their Yeah, and their vibes, and I don’t like to make people feel uncomfortable. But yeah, getting getting money how my wallet is really difficult. One very grateful for the old contactless cards. Now a heck of a lot easier, although the downside of that for me is that I kind of lose track of how much money is spent. Yeah, you’ve got 40 quid in you in your wallet. You spent 20 quid then you have £20 left, and use a card and give me swipe your card over the thing. And, you know,what you have spent.

Esi:

Yeah exactly.

Peter:

After a couple of few weeks you wonder where all that money has gone. Yeah. I mean doing, doing stuff on online, I guess is, I’m used to using a computer and stuff. That’s not a real problem.

Esi:

So I want to ask you a couple of questions in that, if you don’t mind, but going back to the coins for a second, can you think of all the change? Not that you don’t like organisational change, but it’s the physical coins. So is there any other, any solutions that you can think of for overcoming that? I mean, you said one of the things, a big thing that concerns you, is other people feeling uncomfortable about helping you.

Peter:

Yeah. I mean, I always try to put people people allow it otherwise, joke or or whatever, just to get people to see the nothing to be scared of, if that’s the right, that’s even the right terminology, but just to get them to, you know, you know, to relax and to see it again. I’m gonna struggle with this, but I’m gonna need your help. 

Esi:

Yeah, yeah.

Peter:

You know to do that, and always, you know, because it quite if they don’t, I will say, Okay, let me watch. You know what you’re doing. You know, rather than you taking it off me and going round the desk. And, yeah, you know, you can actually see them, yeah. So they’ll, for example, they’ll take a note, and they’ll come to change out in front of me, you know, that kind of, that kind of thing. So again, that makes them feel, better.

Esi:

I can, I can identify with that as well, but I can imagine that quite a few of the disabled people listening can identify with that too, especially if they have limited dexterity or they can’t use their arms and hands for any reason. So I think that’s really useful advice, and really useful to hear from somebody else, that somebody else feels the same, and from the person, the shop person’s point of view, to know that actually it’s okay to feel a bit nervous, and that you’ll help them through. So thank you. And the other bit I was going to ask you was about you said you prefer online shopping, because obviously that takes a lot of those issues away. Are there any barriers that you find when you’re trying to find something? Find something online?

Peter:

Sometimes I if I’m looking for something something specific, I’m not using the right sort of buzz words or the right kind of words to know. Sometimes it’s difficult to actually look for something specific, because not using the right kind of terminology. And, of course, I guess you doing stuff off online, particularly using clothes as an example. You know, you don’t get, you know, chance to try to try to clothes on. I mean, I think good examples don’t play very, very recently, actually, I bought myself these Bluetooth ear pieces, oh yes, and I ordered it, and obviously came to the post, and I was kind of aware of it beforehand, but very much aware of it when it, when it finally arrived, how I was getting the bloody thing in my ear. If I was in the shop, I would say, Okay, if they go, range of them, obvious or trying to use them, see if I could. You know, I’ve done a lot of feeling and fortunately, yes, I can. I can get it, get it into my ear. But obviously, being in the shop, you have the advantage. I would have had that advantage of trying it there and then actually, because I did go to one place, and this is kind of one went online anyway, because you can’t buy what. You can’t buy them in the shop anyway, just one shop that I went to, you can’t buy them across the counter.

Esi:

Wow, yeah. I think, yeah. I mean, like you said, I think that’s problems for quite a few people, and I think that’s why things like Nadex are so popular, because you get to try with somebody who actually understands the barriers that the people face, and it does make a difference. I don’t know about you, but I’ve sometimes been in a store and I said, when I used to buy back in the day, when we had landlines, and when I used to buy landlines, I said, Oh, I would say, can I just see it? Because I need to see whether I can hold it on my lap and things like that. And sometimes they’d be really confused, and I’d have to really explain why. And so it’s a lot easier when the person serving you or the person supporting you is a bit more aware of barriers that people face, in order to say, oh, this person tried this and this works, yeah, a bit like in a clothes shop. When they you know, when a personal shopper knows exactly what your size is. It just makes your life easier. Brilliant. Is there anything else that you would like us to know?

Peter:

I mean, I guess you know my actual personal crusade, really is, you know, whoever you are, whether you use a wheelchair, or you’ve got trouble getting around, or you’re just sending one out, just for the benefits of physical activity are physical activity is good for you physically. Obviously, it gets you physically fit, but also often gets missed out the psychological and emotional benefits. You know, you doing, doing a sport or physical activity quite often, but with other people, yeah, you become part of a community. You know, you start to, you start you doing a sport or an activity sort of long enough, and you start to achieve helps with your self confidence. You start doing things you never thought you could do before. You know how it can really, really help. And there, literally is, I’m a firm believer there’s something for everybody. I mean, obviously, you know. Even people who’ve got, you know, heart conditions or lung conditions and they can’t, can’t do physical activities is going to be too difficult. You can do low level stuff, you know, just, just moving around and doing doing stuff, I think it can, you can. You can benefit from it. And it’s kind of as it’s kind of got me where, you know, where I am today. I mean, I was in, encouraged into into swimming to help me with my independence. You know, yes, it took me to a couple of Paralympics, but that certainly wasn’t the goal. First time I got into swimming pool. You know, swimming is good all round. Yeah, exercise and it, you know, I am, I am independent, place, my own car, my job, you know, I don’t like to be reliant on other people. Yes, I like I was saying earlier, I I do accept. I I need help. We all do, but at the same time, you know, I don’t know if I’m out and about, you know, something goes wrong, I can manage, yeah, yeah. But if it does become too severe as an issue, then I’m not afraid to ask for help, either. So, so, yeah, there’s something, and then there’s enough people out there now. And I think 2012 did wonders for this. You know, just there’s enough expertise out there that, yeah, whatever activity you want to do, there’s enough expertise out there that they can adapt all disability sport in university, Commons is adapted sport. Yeah, it’s adaptable. You know, the equipment, the environment you you know that you participate, and there’s something out there for everyone. 

Esi:

Really brilliant.Thank you so much. And as I said, you know, we’ll put links to this on on the on the subscription bit of the of the podcast, and we’ll put it on the website, and when we put out on social media, we’ll have links to you and active nature as well, so people know what to do to kind of find out more information. Thank you so much for your time today. 

Peter:

My pleasure

Esi:

I really enjoyed talking to you. Thank you again for tuning in to another episode of part of me, the celebrating disability podcast. For further information on any of the topics raised or to share your own experiences, please do get in touch by emailing Esi dot Hardy at celebrating disability.co.uk or calling 01256578016, or you can also find more information at celebratingdisability.co.uk