Transcript
Deborah:
Hello everyone. Welcome to Part of me. Now. Don’t turn off. You might be thinking, hang on, this isn’t Esi, and you’d be right, because today, Esi has invited me. I’m Deborah Levitt, and she’s invited me to come along and ask her some of the questions that she normally asks her guests. So thank you very much for the invitation. Esi, well, thank you very much for accepting. You’re very welcome. So we are sat here at the Novotel hotel in reading, and at the moment it’s relatively quiet. We’re hoping it’s going to stay that way, but if not, you might just hear bits and pieces of people coming by, and obviously they’ll be very excited and wanting to talk to the two of us,
Esi:
Absolutely. Yeah, who wouldn’t
Deborah:
Exactly so Esi, I wanted to start off by asking you just a little bit about yourself, because obviously I know you through celebrating disability your company, and I know you know by looking at you and speaking to you that you you know you’re in a wheelchair and obviously have a physical disability yourself, but it’d be really good just to know a little bit more about
Esi:
I set up celebrating disability in January 2017 after I left my previous appointments at a charity in Hampshire, where I was in charge of the inclusion strategy for the organisation. So I had a background in social care for about 10 years previous to that, so I worked training social workers how to support disabled people to get what they needed out of the services that they were entitled to. And so I trained them and supported writing strategies. I sat on panels as well, so we still have a hand in social care. I sit on a safeguarding panel and national safeguarding panel and do some work for that as well. But I thought, you know, I was working to support disabled people to develop the confidence that they needed in order to do what they wanted to do through the providers that was providing the services and through working with disabled people themselves. And then I thought, well, that’s really good, because they’ve got the confidence, but then they get stuck because the businesses don’t have the confidence to hire them. And I thought, well, I’ve got an opportunity to because I’ve got loads of business experience working within private public sector, and so I’ve got lived experience of disability. I thought it was a really good opportunity to work with businesses help them understand what assets disabled people are to the workplace, both as consumers and as employees within that workplace, and to help disabled people actually not just get a foot in the door, but actually be productive members of staff that will go on to be promoted if that’s what they want, or move around and develop the careers that they want to because the people within the businesses know how to support them in the right way.
Deborah:
And how did you find the businesses react to that? Was it something that they were kind of, oh, you know, I’ve been told I’ve got to hire, you know, X women and X number of people with a disability and, okay, it’s just a ticking of a box. Or were they really open and, I guess, excited and interested in opening up their business to, you know, a new workforce, essentially,
Esi:
I think it’s a mixture. I think some businesses are still were and are scared, especially the smaller ones, the smaller ones that don’t have a big budget, they perceive disability inclusion to be really expensive in the business, and yes, it can be really expensive, but also there are a lot of quick fixes that don’t have to cost a lot of money. The bigger businesses that are more, I don’t know, okay, and used to supporting different initiatives in the diversity and inclusion space are and were a lot more kind of open to the idea straight away, and that obviously helps the small businesses to see the benefits for them and the fact that it’s not a great resource, so they have to take up and hire five other people for I think some businesses, there’s always going to be a tick box exercise, but the majority of businesses See it as a chance to grow their business and to add because obviously when you add diversity into your business, you’re adding growth and innovation and everything. So most businesses say it like that, and obviously you know not that we should do it for this reason, but it is a good PR thing to do as well by having an inclusive, diverse workforce, you are attracting diverse customers as well, because the customers can see themselves represented in the workforce.
Deborah:
And do you find so? So for me, and I’m going to talk about towels and recycling, which may not sound like it has anything to do with this. But, for example, when I go to a hotel and they have a little sign, which says, Help us save the planet, don’t, you know, use your towels and then throw them away to be replaced every day. You know, my cynicism pops in and says, Yeah, you’re just doing that to save money. Now I still probably don’t, you know, send my towels to be washed every day, but there’s a cynicism in me that says the only reason you’ve started doing this is because, as a business, it’s saving you money and it’s making you look good. Is that? Do you ever get the feeling that maybe other disabled people, or just people generally have that reaction to a business as well, that actually you’re doing this because it’s making you look good, and that there’s a cynicism about the truth of their of their dedication or belief in those people,
Esi:
Perhaps. But who cares if it means that disabled people are being able to be included, doing things on their own terms, the way they want to do it, and actually being seen as a valued member of society, of the workforce. Who cares how we got there? You know, I think you I know a lot of consultants that if they feel that the business is contacting them to tick a box, they won’t do it, and I will do it because, okay, I’ll go in there and they’ll they’ll think they’re ticking a box, but then I’ll be able to convince them that it’s a good thing to do, and then that leads, obviously, to more work for me, but also to better inclusion for disabled people and a better perspective on why they’re doing it In the first place. So I say, Who cares why you know their reasons to begin with? It’s you know what happens as a result that’s important?
Deborah:
No And that’s a really valid point. As you say, the end result is the same. It’s just, yeah, it doesn’t matter how it started. Yeah, yeah. So when we’re talking about barriers to the workplace, I think you’ve already mentioned that there’s kind of two sides of the coin. So there’s the person who’s working within the business, and then there’s a consumer who’s coming into it. And I remember conversation you and I had back shortly, I think after we first met, about some of those barriers to people coming in to, say, a pub or somewhere, to just sit down and have a drink and be with other people. So could you give me barriers, both to somebody working in a business, whatever type, and then barriers to consumers actually coming in and using your services of whatever type of business?
Esi:
Okay, I’ll start with barriers for employees, because otherwise, if I do break at the same time, I’ll get confused. So barriers for employees, I think attitude. Attitude is the top, biggest barrier for all of for everybody, all the interviewees I interview, for part of me, whether they represent it as something else, it’s pretty much it’s always down to attitude. It’s not necessarily having a bad attitude, but not understanding barriers of that are cause for disabled people or not understand not having the confidence to ask a disabled person what they need. And that’s all down to attitude. So I think the attitude is the biggest barrier, and it stops so much innovation. Because if you can’t have a conversation and say, Esi, you know, I’m not sure you know, what can what would you like help with? Do you need help with anything? Or do you want me to go away and leave you alone? Or do you want to come to me when you need something? It’s it’s not having the awareness of the support that’s out there for employers and employees to support disabled people in the workplace. It’s not having the open mindedness to know what disabled people can achieve, well, not having the experience of seeing disabled people achieving, therefore thinking they can’t achieve anything. And also, I’ve heard from not many, I have to say that, from a few employees, oh, we’ve hired an employer, sorry. We’ve hired a disabled person before, and they didn’t work out. So we tried. It didn’t work, but that’s one person. No two people are alike, and you can’t, you can’t tarnish everybody with the same brush. So it’s been open minded to realise that actually that was one person, and if it didn’t work out for that one person, why did it work out? Yes, it might have just been because they were lazy, but it also could have been because they didn’t have the right support. I think employers forget sometimes that disability isn’t always visual, so the listeners of the podcast will probably know that I’m a wheelchair user, but a lot so you can obviously see that I’m disabled, but a lot of disability is hidden. It could be due to fatigue or, sorry, it could be caused by fatigue. It could be a mental health condition. It could be something that fluctuates and then disappears every now and then, or it could be something that’s acquired. So they might come into the workplace where they’re not disabled, but become disabled while they’re working. So having the attitude that actually this person is just being lazy and they don’t work out, so we’re firing them, is the wrong attitude. It’s about looking deeper actually, what why are the reasons why they’re not performing the way that you’re expecting them to, and what can be done about it?
Deborah:
And right there, because one of the things that I know, and I’ve said this to you before as well, that I find you very easy to talk to, very easy to be open and to ask questions to, but when I first met you, so at that first, you know, time where we encountered one another, at this networking thing, there’s always for me this hesitation about, well, what am I allowed to say? Can I ask her why she’s in a wheelchair? Can I comment on it? Should I be offering to help or not? And, and, and so I worry. And then I think, well, actually, maybe it’s better not to say anything, because if I don’t say anything, then I haven’t said anything to upset her or whoever it is. And do you find that that’s something that you help businesses within any people within the business about? Well, you know, how do we have the conversations?
Esi:
Yeah, I’m busy nodding away if I shake my head, but yes, no, I call myself a professional disabled person. So I am disabled, but I also my profession is training to do with disability. So for me, any question is worth asking. If I think that it’s inappropriate, I will tell you that it’s inappropriate. But the whole point of what I do is to support businesses to understand about disability, and if I can’t answer, if I can’t allow those questions in, then you know, I’m not doing my job and I’m not supporting anyone. So yes, no, I do encourage and I always say at the beginning of my training sessions, no question is a silly question, and nothing will offend me. I’ve probably said it myself before, which helps people relax and feel that they can say anything, but I will say that, as I said, I am a professional disabled person, but not every disabled person is so just because they are disabled doesn’t mean that your spokesperson so it’s, it’s, it’s unfair to assume that just because the person’s disabled that they can answer every question you have about disability. There’s nothing wrong with occasionally asking the question, but don’t expect them to be that go to person every single time, unless they offer that.
Deborah:
And so if I you know, so let’s assume we were meeting again at you know, networking event and sat down chatting to you, but you as the non professional disability person. However, that first phrase, would you, would you want me to say, oh, you know, is it okay to ask, you know, why you’re in a wheelchair? Or would you want me to just be talking to you on the business level? Or,
Esi:
I think, I think if, if you know, if I introduced myself as Esi, the marketer, I think it would be a strange question to ask. We would be talking about marketing, yes, and I wouldn’t say, do you mind me asking why you’ve got brown hair? Have you dyed it, or is it always been Brown? Well, unless you then we went for a drink and we became friends. And then, you know, I think you have to be led by the individual if the individual seems, it’s like having a conversation with anyone disability or not, disabled or not. If that person seems open to that kind of thing at an appropriate judge, then you know, maybe it would be appropriate. But I would say, if I didn’t introduce myself as a disability consultant, it wouldn’t really be that appropriate to say, Oh, do my masking while you’re in a wheelchair. But even if I did saying that, I don’t know if it would be appropriate anyway, I might invite that conversation that I’m leaders in that direction, but I think it would be strange just to ask it out of the blue.
Deborah:
Yeah, I agree with that. You know, coming completely out of the blue would with but you wouldn’t ask anybody anything completely out of the blue. And, yeah, so again, that’s a good advice, though, just being led by by the person that you’re speaking to and seeing where that relationship goes as well.
Esi:
But saying that, I think you know, I anyone that’s seen me out and about I, I am very physically disabled, so all of my limbs are affected, and I have limited mobility in my hands and limited functionality, but I choose to go out without a PA, which means that I have everything set up the way that I need it to so I can do the majority of things myself, but it looks like I’m struggling. So I do think there’s any harm in asking a disabled person, if you think they may need help, or just offering that assistance, saying, if there’s anything you need help with, please just ask, but don’t assume that they can’t do it themselves.
Deborah:
Yeah, and that’s a fair point as well, because I know, even you know, with us just sitting down, you know, to have a drink and things like that, there’s a couple of things that I’ve said, you know, do you need to get this? And you’re like, No, that’s okay. I can get it, yeah, which hopefully has been absolutely fine.
Esi:
It takes me longer, but yeah, this is the way I like to do it. And I think just accepting and acknowledging that I might need help, but if I say no, that’s fine, then I think that’s the best way of doing it
Deborah:
Yeah Because I remember somebody else I spoke to who had had somebody come along and she’s on crutches, and basically somebody who meant, you know, every good intention, but was just kind of like, Why aren’t you in a wheelchair? And then she said to me, she really had to bite her tongue to acknowledge it’s kind of in her mind that the person didn’t mean anything by it, but was kind of like, well, because I’m walking,
Esi:
Yeah, why aren’t you in the wheel? Yeah. Would you like one instead? It’s like saying somebody, you know, why aren’t you on a diet? You don’t ask this kind of things. You It’s, I think it’s wrong to think it anyway. Why should we be judging other people? I went to an event last night where the speaker, colleague of mine said, you know, when you judge other people, that’s more about you than it is about the other person. So before you open your mouth to ask something that ridiculous question, because surely, if the person is over 10, they know whether they need to sit down or not. Younger than 10, but you know, in a business setting, they’ll definitely be older than 10. I do know somebody that takes their baby to a networking event, but then they’re not networking, and they probably wouldn’t be able to answer a question anyway, but I think my trailer thought, I think no, if you’re, you know, if you need to ask those questions you need to think about. Is this appropriate? Why? Why? Why does it matter?
Deborah:
Yes. And as you say, it does often reflect on you yeah. And whether you’re curious, whether it’s something you’ve got a chip on your shoulder about, or something else, it’s all Yeah. It’s all from our perspective, yeah. And something I’ve been thinking a lot about recently for just, I think, just various people that I’ve come in contact with. So I’ve been thinking that we need to redefine normal and to acknowledge that normal for me is different to normal for you and normal for somebody else is completely different to to either of us, and to be accepting that actually normal is, is personal, and I don’t know, it’s just kind of this half formed idea in my head that says, Well, if we could get everybody to be going, actually, nobody is abnormal. We’re all normal. And it’s just that I’m having to understand what your normal is, and to be more accepting of the differences, because we’re all different, yeah. What about barriers to people coming into your workplace? What kind of things do people both from the business side, I guess so from the business manager, what do they need to think about, and what might the disabled person be considering before they choose to try and enter premises?
Esi:
I think that’s a really good question. You talk about as a consumer, yes.
Deborah:
So a consumer coming in and the business managers view on on what they need to consider for the consumer, and the consumers view on what they are. So for example, you and I are going out to lunch, I suggested a place. You said, sorry. It took me so long I needed to check if I can get in, which is fair enough. I looked at it, saw that it was on the ground floor. Yep, didn’t think any further.
Esi:
Yes absolutely. So we think, I think disabled people. I mean, I can’t talk for all disabled people. I can talk for myself. And as a wheelchair user, my needs are very different to, for example, somebody who’s blind or somebody who’s deaf. As a wheelchair user, I always think about, okay, can I access this building? Where is the accessible loo? Can I access the accessible loo? Are the staff going to be accommodating and helpful? So I always call it if I haven’t been there before, if I don’t know from personal experience more likely if I don’t know from personal experience, if it’s definitely those things in my access requirements, I will call the venue and I will ask very specific questions. So when somebody says, Oh yes, it’s successful, I never believe them, because access to me is very different to access to you. So access to non disabled people usually means, oh yes, no, we’re level access in the room you’re going to end up in. It doesn’t necessarily mean it’s level access to the room. And so I kind of died, you know, asked them to elaborate on that. So from the front door, how do I get into your room? Oh yeah, you go down this flight of stairs, then you’re not accessible. Then are you and then how do I get to your bathroom? Oh yes, it’s up that staircase. And I’m serious when I say this, I went to a pub once with my other disabled friend, who’s also in wheelchair, and she said, Oh, can I use her accessible loo? And the guy was really excited, Oh, yes. Oh, we’ve just had it rebuilt. It’s brilliant. It was designed by disabled people, a wheelchair users, so everything’s perfect. It’s just up those stairs. And so Lorna was like, well, where’s lift? He was like, literally, sorry, I did it again,
Deborah:
Making faces at me
Esi:
Which worked really well. Undefined The guy’s face dropped because he suddenly, oh, I didn’t think about that, and it was literally at the top of a flight of stairs. So he’d probably spent a good 10,000 pounds designing this perfectly accessible loo. But it wasn’t perfect, because disabled people in wheelchairs couldn’t access it. So from from a consumer in a wheelchair, those are the kind of things I think about, from the business owner thinking about what I’ve just said, look at how Take it. Take it from a point of view of a wheelchair user. How will a wheelchair user access don’t guess, ask a wheelchair user. So, I mean, obviously I’m a disability consultant, so I’ll always advocate for hiring a disabled consultant. However, if you don’t have the budget, ask people. Ask for feedback. You would you mind just coming to do a quick you know you’re in my restaurant. Can you give me a feedback on on how you managed around what could we improve and then promote that on your website? Have a section that says, This is the access from a wheelchair user’s point of view. Have other people write reviews about your access into your building. Have some have a phone number on the bottom saying, unfortunately, we don’t have this, but this is what we do have. So for example, at the VUE cinema in Reading, they always put on the website not the lift breaks very often, but they always put on the website when the lift is down, so you don’t have to go to the venue to realise the lift is down, which is really, really good. And most people, I do anyway, I look up the film times before I go. So whilst I’m looking up the film times, something pops up to say, I’m really sorry the lift is broken. So I think, Okay, I’ll go somewhere else, which is really helpful, because it’s not helpful when you travel all that way to an accessible venue. Because, believe it or not, not all cinemas are accessible. You travel all that way to an accessible cinema to find out they can’t even get in. So just think ahead. Think think about your consumers, journey, physical journey, but also the journey of their experience when they’re in the building, and think, Okay, how would I, you know, how can I tell people what we have and what we don’t have, and then, what could I do about what we don’t have? And do exactly the same for other impairment groups? So for example, people with autism, sight impairment or hearing impairments, you know, speak to people with lived experience and think, okay, what can I put in what don’t I know? What do I need to find out? Okay, what do I do with the knowledge that I’ve now learned?
Deborah:
And when you so if you were going to to a new place, and as you said, normally, if you’re going to a new place, you and you haven’t been there before, you want to fund and speak to them. If you went to their website and they did have that type of information, they did have the, you know, here’s a wheelchair person’s perspective, and what they had to say about it. Would you take that as enough for you to go? Yeah, I’m comfortable to go without calling. But would you still be going that person might have a different need to mine, and therefore still need to make the call.
Esi:
So there’s a website called you Euan’s guide, and it’s really, really good. It it’s a review website like TripAdvisor, but specifically designed by disabled people, for disabled people. So the reviews that go on the website are by disabled people, and they’re asked a series of questions pertaining to their access requirements, So, for example, you might be looking for a hotel room, and it would be the review would be written by somebody. You could find the review by somebody with the same with similar access requirements to yourself. So a wheelchair user, or somebody who has an assistance dog but can use their hands, somebody that has assistance dog that can’t use their hands, is very specific. So that kind of information, which I realised that not all venues can get straight away, is really helpful. But if, for example, I went on the website and I, you know, like I said before, I told you what I’m looking for. I’m looking for step free access from the entrance all the way through to the room I want to get to, and then an accessible loo with step free access through that accessible loo, if I can see that on the website, then, oh, great, great, I can come here.
Deborah:
And what about it because there’s some building, especially England old. We’ve got a lot of old buildings, and some of them have steps, and they’re not necessarily, either for the, you know, the conservation of the building itself, or just the business maybe can’t afford at this point in time to put something in which allows independent access. What is the feeling to what you know? So if somebody said, Yes, we do have, you know, there are five steps going up, and we have a ramp we can put down, and we’ll help you. What is your reaction to that?
Esi:
I always prefer if I can do it myself. However, the place we’re going for lunch, that’s exactly the scenario. So they have a step into the building, but they have a portable ramp, and they said, Oh yes, call us 20 minutes before you come, we’ll have the ramp ready. So I’m assuming the reason they said 20 minutes is so that they don’t have to make me wait while they’re running around to get the ramp, although, if we just rocked up, I’m sure they and you went in, I’m sure get out within two minutes sit
Deborah:
I’ll sit down at the table, and we could suggest suggestion, but, you
Esi:
We could suggest suggestion, but, you know, so they’re thinking about the customer experience as well. Yeah, so, you know, I think you can’t change everything really quickly. Personal. I prefer doing the majority of things myself, because I love being independent. However, you know, if people are willing to make an effort that, and I really want to go in the venue, I don’t see a problem with that. Over time, they can change their venue. And I realise sometimes they can’t, but if they can, then that would be great, too.
Deborah:
Yeah, exactly. And as you say, is having that independence. And I know we sometimes see things on, you know, TV and that as well, about, you know, somebody trying to take a train and that, you know, I can rock up to the train station and, you know, get onto the next train, but somebody in a wheelchair or with difficulty going upstairs or whatever, can’t, and they’ve got to actually plan it all in advance. And the more independence we have everybody, the better.
Esi:
Yeah, the easier it is for services as well as disabled people,
Deborah:
Exactly. And one of the things that, again, I recall is speaking about before was the owner. So let’s assume that it is a restaurant or pub something like that. Why? Why should I? Why should I want? I want is the wrong word. What is the benefit to me as a business owner of making my business more accessible.
Esi:
So the purple pound, which is the spending power of disabled people, is over 260 billion pounds a year.
Deborah:
Okay, that’s a pretty good reason.
Esi:
That’s a very good reason. So if somewhere is not accessible and not inclusive, disabled people will go somewhere else. You know, we’re past the 80s and the 90s and the early 2000s where disabled people think, well, you know, this is my cross the bear. I’ll just put up and shut up. People won’t put up and shut up. They will go next door to the venue. So there’s two hotels in a row here, yes, and I always choose this one, although I do like next door because the seats are really low and the tables are really low, so I can’t put a drink on the table, but the doors are automatic. These doors aren’t automatic, but I would prefer to have a little bit of help to get in the building and then be able to feel welcome and valued when I’m in that building and disabled people, but it’s the same for online consumers as well. Disabled people shopping online can’t find the access they need straight away, or can’t access that website straight away. They will just go to another website, and it’s even quicker to go to another website than it is to go to another shop.
Deborah:
And do you think that has changed. So my perception of just everybody is that we, with the advent of social media and technology and all of that, is that we are much more impatient, and that with anything, it’s like, well, I didn’t get to it right away. I’m just gonna go elsewhere. Do you think that’s true of the disabled person as well, that it’s partially due to the, well, to the accessibility of other options, that they’re more likely to just switch to something different,
Esi:
Absolutely, definitely. I mean, you know, I think that there are enough barriers that we as disabled people have to face every single day, and we don’t need to be giving money to people that their value is as customers, and that the thing that’s the end. And as you say, it’s convenient to just jump over some, yeah, jump over to somewhere else. So why not just go to the place that is showing us that we’re welcome?
Deborah:
And even, because I remember when we met here, you know, about a month ago, and and for me, I can’t remember, I was interviewing you, wasn’t I? And for me, it was more comfortable. To be on the sofa. And they were so great, because they didn’t even ask. They just brought over a table that was the right height for you, that worked. The dog went to sleep, and it all went really smoothly. And to me, that was just nice. It wasn’t a special request. It wasn’t
Esi:
Like an awkward situation. Okay, we’ll do if we have
Deborah:
Yeah,
Esi:
Absolutely no. I completely agree, and it’s the same. And I think, you know, as well as the purple pound, disabled people obviously come into a business and spend when it’s inclusive and welcoming, but they also bring their friends and family. So it’s not like we’re coming on our own, you know, we’re bringing two or three or four other people, so rather than spending 20 quid, we’re spending 100 pounds, and we’re returning again and again, because it is inclusive. You know, when I came in here, I sat, I didn’t shout, but I could tell that the guy could hear me, so I just said, while I’m sitting here, could I please have a coffee? And the guy brought it over so I didn’t even have to move from where I was. So for me, that’s convenient. And if it was a busy place, I’m sure they would look out for my drinks running low and not be another one when I can. And then I would bring my mum for her birthday, or whoever, for their celebration, because I know that we could just have a nice time without worrying about the accessibility.
Deborah:
And it makes such a difference, doesn’t it? And it is, it’s it’s just about service and awareness, isn’t it like for anyone
Esi:
Anybody, that’s all it is. Yeah, it doesn’t matter whether you’re disabled, pink, white or green. You know,
Deborah:
Pink and green. You pink and green,
Esi:
That would be interesting Like a lime and a bright pink. I think that, like your key, nobody can see,
Deborah:
Nobody can see my key
Esi:
But i can very bright colours i’ll try that tomorrow
Deborah:
Maybe a checkerboard effect
Esi:
Yes, I’m going to a conference on Tuesday. I’ll do that for the conference.
Deborah:
I would like to see pictures Now, speaking of conferences, this isn’t quite a conference, but you very, very recently, like, I think maybe last week, you went to Buckingham Palace.
Esi:
I saw the queen. No did not see the queen, I was invited to Buckingham Palace, I got an inquiry about disability awareness training, and I was invited to Buckingham Palace to talk about what I could deliver. Very excited.
Deborah:
That’s very exciting. So how was that? Are there? Even? Did you bump into the queen or see the corgis? Or,
Esi:
Unfortunately, not, I think, I mean, I don’t know what gates are which, but I don’t think it was okay. I had a really nice picture with a police officer.
Deborah:
I saw that
Esi:
Did you see that? he was quite yummy, actually, I have to say. So the thing, you know, I hope he’s not listening. But, you know, the thing is, I didn’t actually ask him to be the photo. I asked him to take a photo. He said of course and posed, I was like alright then that will do. No but it was good, it was the same day as the Queens birthday party, not birthday garden party.
Deborah:
Okay
Esi:
So i was on the train, and this lady said where are you going. Showing off i’m going to Buckingham Palace. And she was like so am i and she kinda took the wind out my sales talk
Deborah:
Excuse me
Esi:
Thats my story
Deborah:
You’re just going to wave at the front
Esi:
Exactly. I am not actually going in. But no, it was very fun, very kind of honoured. And, yeah, honoured to be there. So it’s really fun,
Deborah:
Yeah, no. And it’s really nice, as you say, to know that your business is reaching out to people, you know, it’s, yeah, just about two years old now, and and it’s working.
Esi:
Yeah, it’s really good. It’s really, you know, I’ve been invited to quite a few really exciting events. So I’m going to be speaking at the House of Lords in July as well, which is awesome.
Deborah:
Oh wow that is awesome, that is amazing. Yeah, exciting.
Esi:
I knew her when who wants an autograph now,
Deborah:
Can i have a photo too
Esi:
Of course, actually no, my photographer says I’ve had enough for today.
Deborah:
Sorry no i charge for those now
Esi:
Yeah,
Deborah:
So Esi, I’m just sort of having a think about what we’ve covered, and some of the some of the things we’ve talked about are barriers, and we’ve talked about that from both angles, and we’ve also talked about why, as a business owner that serve you know, as a business to customer or client business, that there’s a benefit, a very large benefit, to bringing in that purple pound. What about solutions? Are there any, as you said earlier, sometimes there’s a quick and easy solution. Are there any, I don’t know if they’re quick tips or just ideas that you can give to somebody who is listening or has a business who’s maybe not in a position to hire you right now, but wants to make life a little bit more open for for the disabled community.
Esi:
And I would say, it depends what type of business is, but let’s take a consumer based business where you’re serving customers, I would say, try and do some research. Talk to disabled people. It doesn’t always have to cost money. You have customers, so talk to those customers who are disabled. I always say, you know, there’s nothing wrong with putting something sorry. There’s a sound in the background. It’s getting quite noisy. There’s nothing wrong with putting something on your feedback form, saying if you are disabled and needed access requirements, did we provide these? What could we do next time? And you mind me contacting you to find out further about your opinion. You know, there’s nothing wrong with that. People are really worried about asking. I was talking to somebody the other day, a business owner that owned a small venue in basingstoke, so I don’t see disability. And I said, Well, why? You know are you blind. Because, you know there’s nothing wrong with seeing it’s like when people say, I don’t see blackness, it’s like, well, why you need to and there’s nothing wrong with seeing disability. Disability should be celebrated. You’re only growing your business by acknowledging that people need a bit more support. It adds to the fruitfulness the diversity of your business. If you can show that you’re catering to a diverse range of people, then you know that’s brilliant for your business. And you need to be able to acknowledge disability in order to cater for disability.
Deborah:
Yeah, exactly. And because, as you say, I think when people say now, what they’re meaning is that I try and, you know, I don’t look at you and think that you’re black or in a wheelchair or this, that I see you as the person you are. Of course, part of the person you are
Esi:
Part of me is my colour, is my disability,
Deborah:
And it doesn’t mean that you get treated necessarily in any nasty, different way. It’s just, yeah, it’s meeting those different needs that you might have
Esi:
What is like kind of I don’t see your disability, so I’m not going to hold the door open for you.You wouldn’t do that well Some people might. You wouldn’t Deborah
Deborah:
you, you wait till we go to lunch. I am joking. So Esi, is there anything else that you think you know you just want to share, that you think would be useful for us to speak about
Esi:
Really good questions and then being able to share a lot? So I think that we’ve covered everything. I would just say I know that. I don’t usually let people promote, but it’s my podcast, so I can promote. Listen back to the other episodes if you haven’t already, because there’s some really, really helpful advice and tips for managers and disabled people and business owners that people can pick up from really good, you know, really experienced disabled people, both in the sector of disability, but also in different sectors in business. So please feel free to listen in. But thank you so much.
Deborah:
Thank you so thank you for letting me take the helm of part of me for this week.
Esi:
You’re welcome to come back at any time.