#PartOfMePodcast – Episode 2: Ryan on Inclusion in the Workplace

Esi:

You. Hello, Ryan. Thank you very much for being our second interviewee on this. Could we just start by maybe telling us who you are and what you

Ryan:

Yeah, of course. So my name is Ryan Compton and the director of Centre for resolution, which is a company that provides comfort resolution services, so in the form of coaching mediation and working alongside organisations to resolve disputes before they become big problems, or if they already are big problems, resolving them and trying to enable that working relationship going forward, then we have general kind of coaching services and we where we enable individuals and work alongside them to reach their next professional goals or their personal goals. And then we also have disability awareness training. So they’re the main vocal points of the organisation. In a nutshell.

Esi:

Okay, you have a specific target audience.

Ryan:

I mean, I think, I think the company split up into different sectors, really. So there is definitely a market there and an audience for people with disabilities, both in the workplace and for managers as well customer facing organisations. And that’s that’s one part of the business and then the other part of the business. It’s really that kind of facilitative process, working alongside individuals and organisations to help them reach their their personal professional goals. So it depending on the months and the times, sometimes it’s 50/50, between disability and not, and other times, it’s just a real mixed bag. I mean, we also have offered and do family mediation services, more on a personal side. So it’s quite confusing the way, because you’ve got, you’ve got services that are there for individuals and families, and then you’ve got services that are there for the workplace and professionals and organisations. So there is, there is quite a, quite an option there. But if you just break it down into training, mediation and coaching, and we tend to do most things in all of those areas.

Esi:

How long have you been running?

Ryan:

Yeah, so we’re coming up to our second year for Centre for resolution. I mentored and coached for many years before that, prior and then, because I was getting involved in a lot of disputes in the workplace, and people would often come to me, I decided to add mediation as a skill set there. Also having a disability myself, I would also get involved in issues surrounding disability, and people would always lean on my expertise and knowledge, and, you know, various knowledge I’ve kind of built up over the years, and conferences and things I’ve read and courses I’ve been on, so it just made sense to offer things in centre for resolution that could really, I could reapply those, those knowledges and those skill sets and those, those those professional skills have built up to all of those areas. So that’s why I selected all of those under one roof, so to speak, and that’s why I call it the centre of resolution.

Esi:

Yeah. Brilliant, excellent. Thank you. Do you mind telling us a little bit about your disability and what your disability actually means to you. You said you kind of use that, that experience to drive what you’re doing and central resolution. So if you could just elaborate on that, yeah.

Ryan:

So age six, I was diagnosed with an eye condition called glaucoma, which basically has rendered rendered me for many years as registered pasifi, and then when I became the age of about 21 I was registered blind, which, in theory, most people just think you see darkness, but it just means that your vision is no longer useful. So I can still see shapes and light and dark perception and hand movements if someone’s close enough to me. And the journey has been interesting, because there was a period of my life where being partial the label, it wasn’t very obvious to people that I had a vision impairment, and since becoming 21 years of age and embracing a cane, people have been able to see me having a disability. Now the inspiration and driver that’s given me is because I feel that a lot of people who are successful in one way or another as a person with a disability, were very good problem solvers. And because of the nature of the the occupations and ways in which I’ve worked with organisations, prior within mentoring and coaching, they’re also problem problem solving techniques often used as well. So that’s why I have used that as a basis to form set of resolution because being a problem solver, being facilitative, wanting to empower is really what all of our services are about. So whether you’re an individual, an organisation or also in a professional capacity, we can support you in some type of way. But like you said, in regards to disability, continuing on from it being an interesting journey, just that whole acceptance of having a disability and having a label, that’s also another hurdle for a lot of people with disabilities. I’m sure you, you know.

Esi:

Yeah, no. I mean, yeah, I think, I think it’s quite hard that people expect sometimes that because you’re disabled. You have every answer to every question come across quite often. People think that because you’re disabled, that you should know every answer to any question about disability.

Ryan:

Yeah, definitely that very much resonates with me. I mean, I do feel people with disabilities are responsible in regards as to being open to be asked questions about disability. And I think all people with disabilities are experts on how they feel about disability, but I don’t necessarily feel like they’re experts in how to address those issues, problems, barriers, hurdles, whatever you want to call them. I think you know just because you have a disability doesn’t make you an expert in training or giving advice. I think there’s much more to I think, to be, you know, of that level, I think you have to have gone to a number of kind of training events yourself, read a lot of blogs and articles and books. There’s a lot more that goes into being a professional giving advice in that capacity. So I do feel sometimes that people just get a rough ride because they’re expected to problem solve and know the answers to all of the queries, and especially in employment. Esi, I mean, you’ve seen it where employers will say, Well, you know, your person with disability, what should we do for you? And sometimes the person with disabilities kind of like, well, I wouldn’t know, because this is new to me too.

Esi:

Yeah. And it’s quite dangerous in a way, isn’t it? Because, I mean, for example, if I always liken it to if you meet Esi, you’ve met Esi with a disability, you haven’t met person being with a disability. And I think that can be quite dangerous, because if somebody assumes that, because it works me, it’s going to work for everybody else, it stops somebody from having the support they need.

Ryan:

100% correct. I am with you. I’m with you 100% now. I mean, for me, you know, someone else could have my exact eye conditioner, could have been born on the same day and at the same time as me, how it affects them emotionally and how they how they get around with their with their condition, is totally different to me and how they would feel on any given day. It’s very, very different, different and for each person, each individual. And like you said, the word dangerous is very accurate, because a sweeping statement and a generalisation of a one size fits all approach sometimes doesn’t work. I think there are some basic fundamentals that you can apply to disability in terms of empowerment and in terms of treating people with respect and dignity, and some really kind of common sense approaches, or maybe common sense to you and I, but that we work alongside organisations to develop but I just think it’s so dangerous, like you said, to have this kind of sweeping statement of all people with one particular condition are the same?

Esi:

Yeah, absolutely. And I think, I think when people think of disability, they have a very clear image in their head about what disability is, and I think that also leads people down quite a dangerous route, and those perceptions and stereotypes that put on so many other people, and that’s just not fair, really, and not giving them the opportunities that people deserve and people try so hard to to be able to get to themselves.

Ryan:

Right Yeah, exactly, exactly.

Esi:

So I’ve just got another question for you here. What do you think the hardest thing for you regarding your disability is?

Ryan:

For me, I suppose, where I get frustrated with my disabilities, as you know, I mean, when, especially my work in life, it’s, it’s frustrating sometimes when you have to do certain activities or certain certain things during the day, you have to do a slow pace due to disability. And then, if you’re, if you’re working through the day, your working day. I mean, I know you work for yourself, Esi, but it sometimes when you don’t have that support around you, 24 hours a day, you are sometimes bound by other people’s timetables as to when they’re available to support you with certain things. So that’s the frustration that happens with disability. You know, my colleagues might finish at, you know, five o’clock in the evening. I might want to put a couple of hours in at seven. And equally, you know, they might want to come around at nine o’clock in the morning to support you, or that might be the scheduled time, but actually on that day, I might want to work at a different time. So it being disabled sometimes leads to living a very structured and a very kind of routine life. And I’m I’m not very like that. I don’t mind it within work, but in social life. You know, if you’ve got a book support to maybe get on a train or to access services. You’ve got to be very organised with it. And you know, I might have to bring certain types of medication. Is it too warm outside? Can I bring that with me? So you’ve really got to plan ahead. And sometimes that can really kind of kill the that, you know, that the ability to be spontaneous.

Esi:

Yeah, I mean, I suppose, in other ways? Well, no, I completely agree with you. And in another side, that probably makes you so good at running your business as well, because you do have that structured, regimented approach that’s been drilled into you as a disabled person.

Ryan:

Yeah, I think there are. I think there are definitely positives too. I think that, you know, no matter what happens if I say I’m going to be someone at nine o’clock, I always will be. I’m very much. Like that. I do feel on the whole that people with disabilities, when they get into employment, I definitely feel that they work. I think they work harder than their peers, because they know that if ever there’s going to be a time that they have to have off, they make up for that, and they’re appreciative of having a job, because they’ve usually worked sometimes harder to get the job in the first place. So there are definite positives in that sense, because I think it builds character. But then I don’t think everybody is the same. So I think there are certain people who react well to a challenge, and I think there are some people who are just not that. They’re not necessarily the type of person. Actually, I’m going to do 10 times better than my peers, and why should they? And I think when we’re talking about what issues I face, often it’s society’s perception of what a disability is. And I don’t necessarily always think it’s society’s fault, but I think education is the key person. Yeah, I think there are. I think there are definitely positives too. I think that, you know, no matter what happens if I say I’m going to be someone at nine o’clock, I always will be. I’m very much. Like that. I do feel on the whole that people with disabilities, when they get into employment, I definitely feel that they work. I think they work harder than their peers, because they know that if ever there’s going to be a time that they have to have off, they make up for that, and they’re appreciative of having a job, because they’ve usually worked sometimes harder to get the job in the first place. So there are definite positives in that sense, because I think it builds character. But then I don’t think everybody is the same. So I think there are certain people who react well to a challenge, and I think there are some people who are just not that. They’re not necessarily the type of person. Actually, I’m going to do 10 times better than my peers, and why should they? And I think when we’re talking about what issues I face, often it’s society’s perception of what a disability is. And I don’t necessarily always think it’s society’s fault, but I think education is the key.

Esi:

That’s no I completely agree. There’s so many things in there that I really want to unpack. First of all, the you know that you touched upon the fact that a disabled employee would work harder, or might actually work harder because of the extra things that they have to face in their personal life to get to their job in the first place. I mean, I always say this to clients myself when I’m working with businesses and training. If you value your disabled, non disabled employees, they are more likely to be very productive for you and work really hard because they fought so hard to be where they are in the first place. And for me, for example, if I’m bringing along a personal assistant, I know that I’m paying for that personal assistant, so I damn well want to get the best value for money, so I’m going to work really hard to make sure I don’t waste my time and my money on

Ryan:

Right, right Yeah, exactly. I’m with you.

Esi:

You know, every employee, they have to, they have to prepare for an interview, and they have to prepare their transport and everything to get to where they’re going. But I think that extra push for a disabled person, it’s like, Well, I’m here, I’m going to work really hard to make sure that I stay where I am and that I prove and progress my way up the company. So I think there’s a really good point there. And again, kind of moving on to that, the bit where you talk about kind of education and society, how societal, how, excuse me, how society feels about disability. I think that’s so true as well. I mean, nobody, nobody’s opinion will ever change if they they don’t have anybody to learn from. And I always say, you know, no question is a silly question, and so you know the answer.

Ryan:

Yeah. And I’m just surprised. I mean, picking up on that point as well. When it comes to education. I mean, if you look at the school system, you’ve got every type of education. You’ve got religious education, sex education, you know, there was the course holders of math, science and English and IT now, but there’s nothing really on disability that’s that’s for. And when you look at, you know, children, they sometimes point out things that are different, but they’re actually good at normalising things. So I’ve been in both mainstream and specialist schools, and having a disability was never an issue to young people. It’s an issue when it becomes older, so it’s a good time. I would have thought of capitalised on normalising disability and having that as part of society, because it’s actually very it’s poor. I think, I just think it’s poor in 2017 to be at the point where people feel really uncomfortable with disability, when we’re so comfortable with so many other aspects of equality.

Esi:

Yep, yep. No, I completely agree. I completely agree. So going off from that point, I’m just going to ask you a little bit about advice that you would give to others. So if you had any advice to give to managers, perhaps from something that you’ve already said or something else on how to support stable people in the workplace, what would your advice be?

Ryan:

I think think outside the box. When you when you look at the states, and you look at places like Canada and Australia, they’re very big on alternative ways to support people so often with disability, they feel okay. We can give a person with a disability, we can give them some equipment, and that’s fantastic. But someone may want counselling. If they’re depressed, that’s absolutely fine. They may want coaching, they may want support, they may want an expert. And managers can’t be experts in everything. You know, if you’ve got a HR manager and they’re a generalist in HR, or they’re a generalist in employment, or even if they are a specialist, you can’t be a specialist in everything disability is a specialist area. So I would reach out to a consultant. I would reach out to someone who has those credentials, who can think outside the box and can problem solve and using other things. I mean, I once had a client who was a vision impaired and one of the best things that they did was just reaching out to a company that specialised in vision impairment. Now that wasn’t that’s not an advert for myself, because I wasn’t the person that could support them with that, but they had real they would have said, these are common sense things you could do, but the employer that was a whole new world to them. So I think reaching out, finding out, but also working alongside individuals and asking them what, what we can do to support you, and if they don’t know the answer, and that’s absolutely fine, but checking on how they feel and making sure that the workplace is such a warm place that your employees with disabilities can actually come to you and say, I’m unsure why. So I’m concerned, rather than that culture of all, I’m raising and raising and making a bit of noise here, and I’m going to be penalised for it. So we’ve got to create a culture where we can talk openly and honestly.

Esi:

Absolutely, too. I mean, what I’m hearing from we all say is that, you know, managers should really be looking at their personal, holistic, yes, but not just at one thing, what they see in front of them, but looking at the whole picture about, you know, how it might affect somebody, emotionally, physically, intellectually, all sorts of ways, and then thinking how they can harness that to help that person through that.

Ryan:

Yeah, 100% and I always say it to employers as well, whenever I’m training with them, I always say, you know, when we talk about inclusion, the earlier we talk about the better, because if they’re talking about facts, figures, statistics and money, which is often the bottom line, sometimes in an organisation, if to say, a new build property, for example, by putting and implementing these changes at the beginning, won’t cost any more to implement them within the build, I said. So we can think about that, I said. And but adding adaptations on later can be slightly more expensive. That’s fine. But when you make a working environment, or any environment inclusive, if you make, for example, I don’t know, a high end retailer accessible from a physical point of view, and we put a lift in there, then if one of your colleagues goes off, and I don’t know, perhaps has an injury, or someone needs to carry something heavy upon the top floor, that lift is useful for multiple purposes. So inclusion really supports everybody and excludes nobody. And when we start looking at, you know, the bottom line and figures, and we exclude that way, then often it is counter productive, because it will help the whole workforce. I mean, you talk about documents or easy read well, might help someone with dyslexia, but would it not help the whole workforce? Because if it’s condensed to the point saving time for everyone just multiple benefits.

Esi:

I couldn’t agree more. I couldn’t agree more about building inclusive workforces that help everybody that you know, it’s more of an investment, really, with other costs.

Ryan:

Right Yeah, yeah. And if you know, I mean some companies, I mean it’s not necessarily, there’s always this, this kind of phrase for an unreasonable I mean, some, some, some companies can’t necessarily afford it, especially if they’re SMEs and small businesses, local businesses. I can understand that. But there are so many things you can do that don’t cost anything or cost very little, but there’s nothing more inclusive than than a culture in terms of changing a person’s attitude to make them feel that they can come to you, I think that’s the number one, and that doesn’t cost anything.

Esi:

Absolutely, wholeheartedly agree. And what advice would you give to employees who have a disability or who are disabled in the workplace.

Ryan:

Yeah, so tipping it back the other way, there is a little bit of a responsibility to you know, if your employer doesn’t understand your disability, then try and find a way to become comfortable with your disability and how to explain it clearly to them. Because if you can explain what your disability is to them or how it affects you, then maybe you’re enabling your employer to have a natural empathy, if they can see where you’re coming from, and if we can do it in a way where we’re not trying to attack in fact, this is just how it is for me. I’m not saying I dislike you as an employer, but I feel this, this, this and this could help and just be open to learning new things and asking questions and doing a little bit of research. I mean, yeah, again, I really dislike that sometimes the honest comes back onto a person with a disability. I do think it’s a shared approach, but the more knowledge we all have, the better equipped we are to come against any any problems we encounter.

Esi:

Okay, but what would you say to employees, that because you and I are quite confident people, and we have been disabled for a number of years, used to talk in our businesses talking about stability. So what would you say to somebody who doesn’t have that confidence to actually say I am disabled, and this is what it means. 

Ryan:

I think it’s an investment in yourself. Number one, to try. I know it’s easy said than done. I mean, I wasn’t always confident with my disability. Know that I know loads about so I just read a lot which was, which was quite empowering for me to know, to know a little bit more, especially around kind of the equality that was, that was empowering. But number two, I if it’s an investment for yourself and you want to put your money where your mouth is, or you want to reach out to organisations, do the research, there are organisations, both in the charitable sector and paid services, that are usually quite instant. That’s usually the benefit there, reach out and get that support. Because in all honesty, if you go to generic services like a. I don’t like to bash people that say the job centre, for example, they’re only going to have a generalist who doesn’t really necessarily know much. So reaching out to an organisation that has expertise, the investment maybe with with with someone for one or two hours might be information that you use for the next 20 years. So I think reaching out to someone and trying to understand it from their perspective, they may give you some hints and tips that you can just use throughout your life.

Esi:

Okay, I think that’s really good advice. And I think what we’ll do after this podcast is, when we upload it onto the website, we’ll also have a few, like four or five links to some of those charities that can help disabled people. Yeah. So if Ryan, if you have any suggestions, perhaps you can suggest that they’re added on to the to the links after this podcast.

Ryan:

Yes, that’s fine. Yeah,

Esi:

Brilliant. Thank you. So we’re nearly at the end of our podcast today. Is there anything else you would like people to know about supporting disabled people in the workplace, or a disabled person themselves managing with their disability in the workplace.

Ryan:

I would just say, I think, I think reiterating the points is just to find out more, read more. I think society is slowly getting better with this stuff, so I think that’s a positive thing to to look out for. There are more and more groups now, especially on social media. And I’m sure, like, if you, if you’re on Esi platform, you’ll find out a lot of those. And just just keep in the know, you know, find something that you like, in regards to disabilities. I mean, there’s a few kind of news articles and things that I try to keep upon just out of interest to see where we’re going as a community with people with disabilities, and if you can try and involve yourselves in some aspect of a community, whether it’s free Facebook, whether it’s social media, whether it’s a radio or a podcast, keeping yourself informed, I think is empowering, because I never used to know that much, and now I know a lot by just I’m constantly reading, constantly refreshing my knowledge, and I’m talking to people in different industries, and I think that’s part of my development as a person with a disability. Now, there’s varying degrees as to how much you want to go into that, because it might not you might not require it as a personal you might not require it in your job. I do it because part of my job, but also I find it empowering as a person. So take as much or as little of it as you want. But I just think being involved in those communities, I think is very interesting and, like I said, empowering for me.

Esi:

I think that’s really useful advice. Thank you so much, Ryan, it’s been really nice talking to you. Thank you very much for listening to everybody. As you know, I’m Esi from celebrating disability, we’re going to be releasing a podcast a month under the hashtag part of me, so you can search for us on Twitter or have a look for us on our website or social media. And if anyone wants to take part if they want to know anything specifically about either supporting disabled people in the workplace, or if you, yourself, are a disabled person who is looking for some advice about how to get some support in the workplace, please do get in touch, and we will add the questions to our next interviewee. Thank you very much. Bye, 

Ryan:

Bye.