Episode Summary
What happens when lived experience becomes the thing that reshapes your purpose?
In this episode of The Equality Edit, Esi Hardy speaks with Daniele Lul about disability, identity, activism, and the power of community-led change. Daniele shares how acquiring a disability later in life completely changed the way he experienced the world, from the sudden reality of marginalisation to finding purpose through advocacy and community work.
The conversation explores why disabled people must lead conversations about disability, how intersectionality shapes lived experience, and why inclusion cannot be built through assumptions. Together, Esi and Daniele unpack the importance of visibility, representation, activism, and creating spaces where disabled LGBTQ+ people feel seen, celebrated, and heard.
This episode reflects on resilience, community, accessible workplaces, and the role organisations play in creating environments where disabled people can thrive, not simply survive.
Transcript
Esi Hardy (00:00)
For me, it’s about kind of
ensuring the community always has a voice and we are always living that mantra, nothing about us without us, by constantly reminding people that we are here and that we should have a say, the first say and the co-productive say in what happens about us and to us all the time.
Hi everyone, welcome again to another episode of the Equality Edit, where we unpack equality one story at a time. Thank you so much for joining. Today I am joined by my friend and colleague, Daniele Lul. So I met Daniele in, was it like 2020 or 21? When he and his co-founder, which he will explain, co-founder of what in a minute?
Daniele Lul (00:52)
I think so, yeah, around that time, yeah.
Esi Hardy (01:02)
reached out to me to deliver a disability inclusion talk for, I think it was, was it LGBTQ+ consortium or, I was going to say or something, but not or something at all. And it was a really good talk. And as a result, then invited me to apply to be a trustee for his charity, which, which Daniele will explain in a minute. So we have a long history. We also bonded over music, rock music.
Daniele Lul (01:08)
It was, yeah, yeah, good memory.
Esi Hardy (01:27)
And I’m sure there’s lots of other things we’ve bonded over as well, alcohol and cocktails, which have also been like a big part of our relationship. But I will hand over to Daniele to let him introduce himself. Yes, let’s get on with the episode. So, hi Daniele, thank you so much for joining us.
Daniele Lul (01:33)
Okay.
Hi, Esi. Hello, everyone. Thanks for having me. I’m really excited to be part of this project. And yes, I’m Daniele Lul. My pronouns are he, him, and I am the co-founder and community engagement director of ParaPride. ParaPride is a nonprofit organisation. We are an empowerment charity. We advocate for the visibility, education, and awareness of disabled LGBTQ+ people.
Esi Hardy (02:09)
Brilliant, thank you so much. And can you tell us a little bit more, I mean, I want to talk about why you started ParaPride in the first place, but can you tell us a little bit more about why it’s so important to advocate and empower those two communities in the work?
Daniele Lul (02:25)
Yeah, well, you know, the need for an organisation like ParaPride for me personally comes from my experience of becoming disabled later on in life. So I have an acquired disability. I became disabled at the age of 40. So about 10 years ago. And so for context, I’m an amputee. I walk on prosthetic legs and
the reason why I become an amputee is because I had Meningitis and Septicaemia which was a very difficult and sudden thing and very unexpected. And so that had a really big impact in my life and it had an impact on the choice of founding an organisation like ParaPride,
becoming disabled taught me how much disabled people are excluded from many aspects of society and how very quickly that can happen. And so personally, as a gay man, I could see that there was a very evident need to address the lack of inclusion for disabled people within the LGBTQ+ community. So I wanted to do something about that. And I came across a small
group of people who were very like-minded, who were part of the disabled community, who also identified as LGBTQ+. So we kind of got together and decided to found ParaPride. Originally, we weren’t really sure how to call it. Should we call it Disability LGBTQ+ Pride? Should we call it this, that, the other? And I always really loved
um, you know, the word ParaPride, because I really loved, you know, yeah, I really liked to see, um, you know, to watch things, Paralympic games or the Para Athletic games, you know, because that, that was a very, uh, that was an aspect about disability that everyone so looked at in awe, you know, like, and, for once, you know, once every, however many years, you know,
however much often the Paralympic comes, every few years, there’s that one instance where everyone is like, disability is really good and they’re really good. And of course, disability is not all about that. There are many different aspects of disability. And there’s one thing that I always noticed since becoming disabled is the misrepresentation of disability.
Esi Hardy (04:39)
Mm.
Daniele Lul (04:50)
and the different conceptions of disability. So on the one hand, generally I could see that people view disability not in a very positive way. It’s either the burden of society or the people, the community in need of special care, in need of special assistance. And then on the very opposite end, there’s the superhero that…
Paralympic champion and you know in between these two far extremes there’s very little that people recognise and in actual fact there is a lot there’s us everyday people that don’t only want to be seen as disabled you know we have so much more going on in our lives we work we go out we you know we go shopping whatever it is you know but
Esi Hardy (05:11)
and
Daniele Lul (05:36)
We don’t only want to be seen as a disabled. We are very talented. We are empowered. We are so much more to our disabilities. So that was one thing. And I’m going a little bit around this, but what I liked about the word ParaPride is because it felt a bit like more empowering. And it comes from the parallel of the regular LGBTQ+ pride.
Esi Hardy (05:59)
Mm-hmm.
Daniele Lul (06:02)
But it still has the pride there. So
Esi Hardy (06:04)
For me, it’s about kind of
ensuring the community always has a voice and we are always living that mantra, nothing about us without us, by constantly reminding people that we are here and that we should have a say, the first say and the co-productive say in what happens about us and to us all the time.
For me, it’s about kind of
ensuring the community always has a voice and we are always living that mantra, nothing about us without us, by constantly reminding people that we are here and that we should have a say, the first say and the co-productive say in what happens about us and to us all the time.
Daniele Lul (06:46)
it kind of like, it’s what it says on the tin. And I really liked that about ParaPride. And that is, in essence, how ParaPride came about. My experience in wanting to do this definitely played a big role. And also, like I said, I could see that there was definitely a need to raise awareness about our community, our intersectional community.
And that’s how we came about. And we launched in 2019, so we’re still a fairly young organisation. We are a growing charity, we are a growing community, and we’re very busy, even though we’re a small team. And ParaPride is a community-led organisation, it’s volunteer-led, and our lived experiences are at the core of what we do.
Esi Hardy (07:38)
Brilliant, there’s so much I want to touch upon, but I just want to kind of raise awareness of the tagline of ParaPride, because I also think that the name ParaPride is really, what’s the word I’m looking for, kind of really, not just catchy, but really, you know, it really says what it does, and it really uplifts the community. And I think the tagline really helps with that pride in everyone.
Daniele Lul (08:01)
Yes, absolutely. Yeah, it used to be pride in everyone and we recently changed it to pride it in everybody. So yeah, no, that’s okay. That’s okay. It’s a fairly recent thing that we changed. And you know, when you were involved in ParaPride as a trustee, didn’t quite, you know, we’re still like in everyone. So it’s perfectly fine. It’s just a small change that we think that it just sound apart from sounding better. It serves the purpose more.
Esi Hardy (08:08)
my gosh.
So is that about every, is that the literal translation of body? So every body and how a body works?
Daniele Lul (08:29)
you
Yes, yeah. Well you know, part of what we do, you know, we want to create more body positivity, you know, like we want to raise awareness about body positivity and being able to celebrate that and being able to own that, you know, so definitely pride in everybody as a slogan sound, you know, it definitely align more with what we do.
Esi Hardy (08:52)
Perfect.
Yeah, brilliant. love it. really like it. think it, really, you know, from a, from a, it’s not that it’s not that the most important thing is the marketing, but from a marketing perspective as well, it really kind of sums up exactly what ParaPride is from the name and the tagline. I really like it. So you mentioned at the end there, I mean, there’s lots of things that I wanted to touch on actually that you were talking about. So one of the things that you talked about when you were explaining why ParaPride exists.
Daniele Lul (09:04)
you
Esi Hardy (09:30)
is that when you acquire a disability, the marginalisation is so fast and that’s something I’ve never experienced because I haven’t acquired my disability, I’ve always had a disability. And so for me it’s a bit different. For me it’s almost like a…
something I expect, which is not a great thing, but I expect a lack of inclusion and I expect a lack of access. But that kind of that jolt to kind of be from being in a maybe a community that was embracing to one that marginalises you must have been quite a shock.
Daniele Lul (10:08)
It was, it was, and you know, you realise once you become disabled, once you live life as a disabled person, you you realise how, how, you know, how suddenly it can happen, you know, something that you never really thought that you would be a part of or…
or something that you would never think that would happen to you, it can happen very easily. And disability is one of the largest marginalised groups in the whole world. And it can happen at any point in your life, whether it’s just naturally growing old or something traumatic like what happened to me happens. And so you need to react to that,
you need to make the most of it. I think with my experience, because I was poorly for a very long time, I was in hospital for months and months, I know how close I was to not being here at all. You kind of really need to look at the bigger picture. Okay, yes, I will be living life as a disabled person. I will need to adapt to walking differently. I need to walk…
on prosthetic legs. But in the grand scheme, in the very broad picture, at least I have a life, I have a survival. I can still live life and adapt to things differently. I’m lucky enough for this sort of stuff to happen in a day and age where there’s a lot more information. In a city, in large city like London, where there are more resources and more information and more…
Yeah, more things that will impact your life, you know, in more positive way. And it also happened to me at an age where I could adapt more easily than, you know, something like this. In my journey, I met a lot of people who were elderly, you know, in their 70s or even 80s, you know, limb loss at that age is very different, you know, because you adapt
things differently. And your attitude is kind of like slightly different. But, you know, I was in the bad, the good is that it happened to me at an age where I could adapt to things more, better, you know, just better. And also, you know, it’s worth being reminded that we’re all very different, you know, experiences from person to person change, regardless of your age, regardless of
you know, whatever is going on in your life, you know, like I was lucky enough to have the right support in my life, you know, from my family, to my friends, and also to the professional people that I was in contact with, you know, doctors and nurses and specialists. And I was given right advice and I was given the right, you know, like the right information, you know, these are the resources that you can use, you know,
you can live life, it’s okay, you can do whatever you want. And I think that’s really important to have because if I didn’t have that, I didn’t know what to do. But I have to say that what really helped me also through my journey, accepting my disability and my new life is something that happened to me in my life many years before I became disabled.
Because I grew up, I’m Italian, I grew up in Italy, I’m mixed race, but you know, my growing up happened in the north of Italy in a city called Modena, you know, back then, it’s slightly different now, but back then, you know, when you reach the age of 18, there’s a mandatory year that you have to do to military service is what it used to call it. It doesn’t happen anymore, but back then you had to, you you reach 18 and unless you’re like, you know, in university and stuff like that,
you have to just drop everything you’re doing and dedicate one year of your life to military service. But there was only one way to opt out of that, and that is to declare that you are against arms and against weapons and all of that stuff. And then the other option was to do one year as a, well, it used to be called civil service. You’d go, in my…
in my, you know, for what happened to me. They sent me to work as an admin for a local authority and they allocated me to an organisation, a charity, which was helping supporting parents with children who were disabled. And for one year I worked with them and this was a very big insight, you know, from the very beginning I thought, my God, you know,
Esi Hardy (14:40)
Okay.
Daniele Lul (14:47)
What am I going to do? Who am I going to come across? What kind of disabled people am I going to be supporting? How am I going to help them? You know, like I was just an 18 year old kid, 18 or 19, I can’t remember. And, you know, like, so I started working very closely with the president, with the director of this organisation, who was a disabled man. And he was dedicating his life to, you know, to helping others growing.
Esi Hardy (15:05)
the president.
Daniele Lul (15:14)
Yeah, raising their children who were disabled. And I absolutely loved it. And that was so eye-opening for me because it taught me so much about disability. I was able to look at disability in a very different way. Because, well, like everything, when you don’t know about it, you just have your own preconceptions and your own kind of like…
Esi Hardy (15:20)
Mmm.
Daniele Lul (15:38)
Yeah, you don’t know how to react. You’re ignorant about that. But then you meet people who are within that world and you think, okay, you’re disabled. You’ve got a regular job like everyone else. You do what every regular person does except the fact that you live life on a wheelchair. these kids who were born disabled, part of my job was also to spend a little bit of time
Esi Hardy (15:43)
Yeah.
Daniele Lul (16:04)
at the local primary school because some of the disabled kids, one of them had Down Strength Syndrome, the other one, I can’t remember exactly, but I just had to spend time with them, helping them with the homework or just playing with them and things like that. And I was really enjoying it and I could see that these kids were just like any other kids, sometimes they would pick that and I had to step in and just.
Esi Hardy (16:23)
Mmm.
Daniele Lul (16:31)
make that stop and I could see that they were upset but they had a fight in them. You know like, what you’re picking me on is wrong. And that had a really big impact on me. So that experience really came back big time when I became disabled at the age of 14. And so it all started.
Esi Hardy (16:39)
Yeah.
Wow, yeah.
Daniele Lul (16:57)
flooding back and I was so, grateful, even more so in that moment than I ever was because who knows, you know, who knows, maybe that was meant to be and, you know, me having that experience really helped me. So Esi, yeah. No, but I was gonna say, I kind of like forgot the point now. You need to remind me because I went back.
Esi Hardy (17:15)
Yeah, let’s…
that was really interesting. That was really insightful. I didn’t know any of that. And you know, that’s really interesting for two reasons, because you know, the idea of military service, mandatory military service on the outside sounds awful, but actually it leads to so many kind of opportunities and advantages that you’ve just described. I’m not going to get a political and political walk back, but you know, that’s really interesting,
Daniele Lul (17:40)
Yeah. Yeah, everyone hated it.
Esi Hardy (17:47)
we also, on the very first episode of The Equality Edit, talked to Joe Collette, who is a web developer. And he was talking about, why he got into developing specifically for inclusive and accessible websites. And it’s because his daughter was born with Down Syndrome. And when his daughter, his daughter is like three years old now. And when his daughter was born, the doctors were like, my gosh, you know, she’s not going to have any quality of life.
And everything like that. And it’s just making me think about what you’re talking about because you were giving the resources and you were given a very different kind of experience of what disability would be from when you acquired your disability, but also when you worked with disabled people when you’re lot younger. And it’s just these outside influences that really impact our perceptions and what we think an experience isn’t gonna be. So.
I’m not quite sure what question I asked you in the first place, but I’m glad that you answered that one because I think that’s really interesting. So thank you.
Daniele Lul (18:48)
And also, you know, like what you just said about either the experience of this other person that you were talking to, it also reminds me of, but you know, it’s not just what you’re going through. It’s also the, you know, the perception of disability of people around you, you know, like when it became evident that I was going to live life as a disabled person, you know, I knew I had
no other way. You have to accept it. You have to embrace it. Because if not, you’re just going to go mad. You need to have that mindset. And I realised that there’s that intergenerational gap. And so I often found myself having to convince people around me, close people, family people who like my
Esi Hardy (19:23)
Yeah.
Daniele Lul (19:37)
parents as well, like people of the age of my parents that, no, don’t worry, everything is going to be okay because, you know, like, but for them, it was a bit of a catastrophe, you know, like your son or your loved one, you know, suddenly having to live life as a disabled person. I mean, how, you know, like that’s the worst thing that can happen. You know, it’s not a great thing to happen to you, but there is a lot worse, you know, like, so I often had to find myself in a very unfortunate position
of having to convince people that everything was going to be fine, you know, like, whereas you want that to be the other way around. And yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So, so there is that like catastrophising, I don’t know if that’s a word, you know, like that thing of, know, and it all comes with the fact that, you know, nothing about disability and,
Esi Hardy (20:09)
Wow. Yeah.
other way round really, you need that. Yeah, yeah, absolutely, yeah.
It is, yeah.
Daniele Lul (20:33)
and all the positive things that can happen to you in life, you are disabled.
Esi Hardy (20:41)
Did you find that a lot of your relationships changed after you acquired your disability?
Daniele Lul (20:47)
Luckily, no, not so much. I still get some of my uncles or aunties who are just so impressed with how I’m living life. And you go to the gym, wow, I mean, you are so great. And you go shopping yourself, my God, that is amazing. I’m like,
If I’m gonna be the, you like your motivation to get out of bed every day just because I like, I cross the road and go, you know, knock yourself out. So, you know, things like that, I still, you know, I still, I know that they’re meant, you know, they’re meant in a nice way, you know, they mean nice and they are genuinely happy for me. It’s just,
you know, things like that. It’s just a generational thing. You know, there’s nothing bad about that.
Esi Hardy (21:39)
you mean. I experienced that and I never know how to respond. So even yesterday, my ironing lady who I’ve known for like a couple of years now said, you’re so, think she’s, and she did not mean it in a patronising way at all, but she said, you’re so inspiring that you do so much. And I was, but I work from home. don’t actually.
You know, there are days that I don’t leave the house. So, you know, I think you actually do more than I do. But it’s this this idea that not that, you know, I just want to I’m not a hermit. Just want to qualify that.
But it’s this idea that we are kind of sitting at home doing nothing, feeling sorry for ourselves. But I agree with you that it’s hard to take, even when people mean it with the best intentions, I find it really, really hard to swallow. And I either don’t know what to answer or I really cannot be grateful that somebody thinks that about me. I find it really difficult.
Daniele Lul (22:40)
I think you’re right. Yeah, no, I totally understand that. I recognise also that there’s definitely, living in a large city like London, there’s more information, there’s more representation, there’s more positive representation and visibility for disabled people. But when I go back home to Italy,
Esi Hardy (23:01)
and
Daniele Lul (23:02)
I can
clearly see that it’s very different. It’s still, there are disabled people out and about and living their life and working and just like regular like everyone else. But there is also a lot of people who are just not able to leave the house or maybe…
not able to leave the house because they don’t have, their homes are not adapted enough. Maybe they have a lot of stairs and maybe they, that sort of thing, it’s, they’re still working on. And I live in a smaller city as well. Maybe things are different in larger cities like Rome, Milan or whatever. But so for what I see based on my experience and my observation, to my reality when I go back home.
it’s still not as available. you you just reminded me once I was at a family gathering and I happened to move a chair from one spot to the other. And one of my cousins was like, my God, just lifted that chair and you moved it. I mean, and he was so impressed that I did that. And I’m like…
Esi Hardy (23:50)
That is…
Ha!
Like you’re the Hulk or something.
Daniele Lul (24:10)
Are you kidding me? But yeah, so yeah, that’s really… Things like that still happen and I need to remind myself like, okay, like maybe it could be worse. You know, it could be worse.
Esi Hardy (24:26)
I know what you mean though, and I think it is the case in Britain as well. I remember we were at an event together a couple of years ago, and I think an acquaintance of yours was talking about, I don’t know how disabled people live in these backward villages. And then he said, oh, where do you live, Esi? And I was like, in one of those backward villages. So there are places outside of London that…
But I don’t feel as though I live a lesser life from an accessibility standpoint because I’m not in London. But there are still places everywhere, probably still in London, where disabled people are stuck in their environment. I mean, there are stories all the time about disabled people who are being refused DFGs, disabled facilities grants in their houses, so they can’t move from their living room to their kitchen without support or they can’t get out because there’s no
Daniele Lul (24:57)
Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah.
Esi Hardy (25:18)
step-free access for them to get out. But I think in this country, it’s more to do with attitude than ability to make a change, which is so maddening.
Daniele Lul (25:28)
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
Esi Hardy (25:31)
So let’s talk about one of the other things we wanted to talk about was your career, kind of the comparison between the career that you had before you acquired your disability and then the career you have now, because I know you used to be in events management. And when we when we spoke about kind of what we were gonna speak about today, we touched upon that a little bit.
Daniele Lul (25:50)
Yeah, yeah, my professional background is in events management and I worked in, so I lived in London for many years, like more than 25 years and most of my professional background happened around like in the hospitality industry. And yeah, for a number of years up until I’ve become disabled,
up until I had meningitis and I had to take a very long time off. I was really enjoying working in events management. I mean, it is something that was very exciting and I can’t really say it fulfilled me as a job. It’s an experience that I wanted to do and then I pursued and then I have…
done for many years and, you know, I was just, became evident at some point, I was aware that it wasn’t a type of industry that, you know, that I wanted to be a part of, you know, in a long run, you know. Say, you know, once you are in events management, you can either progress and go into more senior management.
And of course the opportunity is there, you have the experience and you have what you need to be able to make that step. But you need to be very convinced that it’s a step that you want to make, because you go into senior management, then of course you need to fulfill that role and you need to be very good at it and stuff like that. And I wasn’t really 100 % sure that that’s what I wanted. I don’t wanna get into
a job and more commitment and more responsibilities and knowing that I’m not 100 % not you know my heart and my mind is not 100 % there. And so and so of course like you know the other alternative is you know continue doing what you’re doing doing that the best that you can but at the same time you know like anything after you do you do that job for x amount of time you know it becomes a little bit sane it becomes a little bit
you know, boring and unmotivating and, you know, stuff like that. It’s just natural, you know. So I was a little bit stuck in that environment for some time. I was doing it and I was, you know, was showing up at work every day and I was, it was okay. But, you know, I was very, very aware that it is a kind of job that, you know, it’s revenue generating is a huge part of that role.
You know, so sales and upsale, upselling and things like that. And then one thing happened, you know, I have many clients, know, mostly, you know, corporate clients, you know, coming to do like conference, sometimes, you know, small meetings, like three day conferences and things like that. So you come across many, many, many interesting people. And one of the people that I come across was
doing a three day event for a charity, a large charity, I think it’s Blood Cancer UK, but it was called differently back then. And during the planning stage, you get to interact with the client, what they want, what’s kind of set up and all those details. And I was just so interested about this type of event because it was a charity, it was for a large charity,
and they had so many things going on and I was asking him a lot of questions. I was really interested to know how he got into this kind of role and he shared that before he got into working for a charity, he was working in banking. He had a big job, earning a lot of money, but he was very unhappy.
Esi Hardy (29:32)
Okay.
Daniele Lul (29:36)
You know, because there was a lot of stress, he wasn’t enjoying life, you know, because of all of the stress that it gave us. And he decided to give it all up and try to use his skills that he, you know, that he built in his career working in the city as a banker. And he decided to, you know, to work for a charity. And since then, you know, he started to enjoy life a lot more because it had a more meaningful impact on, you know, he was aware
Esi Hardy (29:43)
Mm-hmm.
one
Daniele Lul (30:06)
that what he was doing had an impact, a positive impact on communities, on many things. And he was so much happier. And that really stuck to me. That really, really stuck to me. And I thought, gosh, I wish I could just drop everything and do that. And that experience, that interaction really had a big impact on…
Yeah, it kind of like a penny dropped and I realised that that’s something that I wanted to do. And so, you know, it didn’t happen back then because eventually, you know, like when I got ill with meningitis, I didn’t really know a lot about meningitis. When it happened to me, it’s such an insidious thing because all you feel
Esi Hardy (30:50)
Mm.
Daniele Lul (30:57)
The kind of like, yeah, the feeling is very close to like a cold or flu, you know, so you kind of like feel very tired. You maybe have like a headache. You just want to lie down. And then, you know, but in fact, it was the beginning of something a lot bigger. And, you know, eventually I spent many, many months in the hospital, like I mentioned to you earlier. And when I came back out of this journey and I started to recovering, I started to get back into
Esi Hardy (31:01)
Okay.
Daniele Lul (31:24)
life, you know, I decided that I wanted to, you know, to work as a volunteer for a charity, so I started to work. I was recruited. Yeah, I was recruited by a charity based in South London called the Latin American Disabled People’s Project, which isn’t too far away from where I lived. they recruited me as a… I can’t remember, like maybe I was a volunteers manager or something like that.
And that was my first experience working for a charity as a volunteer. And it was great because I was a newly, you know, was living my new life as a disabled person. It was kind of like getting me, you know, it was my first big responsibility, even though was a part-time volunteer role, I was still responsible about something. And I learned so much thanks to
thanks to this charity and the director of the charity, he was, you know, he worked very close, I worked very closely with him and he taught me a lot. He was great and I’m still very much in touch with them and thanks to my journey with them and I think I volunteered for them, I don’t know, two or three years or something like that and that is what gave me that, you know, that motivation to, you know, to found
to co-found an organisation like ParaPride. So eventually when I left that, I left it because we decided to set up ParaPride. That’s how it all came about. And of course, because events is also a big part of what ParaPride does, my previous experience in event management and hospitality really helped for that aspect of the work that we do.
Esi Hardy (33:08)
Yeah.
Yeah. Do you think that you would have ever left event management if you hadn’t got meningitis?
Daniele Lul (33:21)
Yeah, that’s a good question. I think that it would have been definitely challenging, you know, because it would not have been impossible, you know, but it requires risk, you know, because things kind of work out and things may not work out at the end of the day, you know. There are many similarities to
you know, to jobs that you do in events management, to jobs that you can do like for charities. But, you know, you have to consider many different aspects and there is the risk element and I may have, you know, I think that eventually I would have changed the job, but it probably would have taken a lot longer and
and it would have been a very different experience, know, it would have had a different impact. So I’m grateful that things turn out the way they did in terms of being involved in a charity industry. But yeah, I don’t know if I would have, I think it may have taken a little longer and a lot more thinking and considerations, which yeah.
Esi Hardy (34:15)
Yeah.
Yeah.
It’s interesting,
the lived experience, which I know we’re going to talk about in a minute, lived experience helps to shape, really the direction of who we are and what we do. And so maybe and correct me if I’m putting words in your mouth, because I think I am.
But maybe this is my experience, maybe without that lived experience, it would have been hard to find something that you were passionate about in kind of the voluntary and charity sector.
Daniele Lul (35:09)
I think you got, you said exactly the right thing there, you know, like, you know, with your lived experience, you know what matters to you and you know what, you know, how you can really impact something that you feel passionate about, that you feel like it’s a meaningful thing to do. And it’s exactly right. You know, like when I found myself in a position where, you know, I…
Esi Hardy (35:14)
Hmm.
Yeah.
Daniele Lul (35:31)
I could relate to something because of my own personal experiences and having identified the need to address the lack of inclusion for the community because I felt myself cut out of an experience. And so you realise this is the right time. This is the right time for me to really contribute to something the way it needs to, the way it deserves to.
Esi Hardy (35:42)
Hmm.
Yeah, yeah, so when I was before I set up celebrating disability, and I don’t want to I honestly don’t want to sell myself short in my career before celebrating disability. But this seems to be the the first job for want of a better word because I don’t find it a job. But the first job that I really feel that there’s there’s a consequence to if I don’t.
So the reason I left, the reason I found it so easy to leave my old charity was because they were awful. But also because, you know, it didn’t seem as though there were that many consequences. I thought, well, you know, I can always just, you know, not that I think it should be something that people rely on in terms of not doing something else. But I can always go on to disability benefits for a while while I look for something else. It just so happened that I decided within a month to set up a business.
But and I was applying for jobs at the time, but I do understand, it’s not that easy and it’s not that simple for other people and I was in the very lucky situation, you know people might not think it’s lucky for them, but I thought it was lucky for me that I don’t have any dependents. I’m not married. I don’t even have a goldfish. So there was nobody that was gonna suffer if I didn’t find a job for a few months
But it’s not, so in that way we’re privileged that we have the option to kind of do those kind of things where it’s not always available for other people to have that opportunity to take that risk in that same way.
Daniele Lul (37:27)
Yeah, yeah, absolutely, absolutely. And I think that that is, a lot of people can relate to that, you know, the element of risk, that slows you down, that stops you from, you know, taking that step, you know, that, you know, because you have to think about so many different things. So yeah, it is a difficult thing, but things worked out the right way. I’m very glad about that.
Esi Hardy (37:47)
So the moral of that story is don’t have any children, stay single and become disabled and then you can do whatever you want to do.
Daniele Lul (37:49)
It’s warm!
Yeah, exactly.
With a bit of luck, you’ll be disabled and then everything will happen for you.
Esi Hardy (38:01)
and join us. It’s great. So let’s talk about lived experience because I think in both of our businesses and sorry, celebrating disability being a business, ParaPride being a community led charity in both of our organisations, we lead by and we value lived experience and that user led way of working. So tell me how it impacts your work positively,
or negatively if you want to.
Daniele Lul (38:32)
My living experience, how it impacts my work. Well, you know, of course, you know, like I said, being a disabled person, you realise how important it is to have that representation, you know, like you have a responsibility to…
Esi Hardy (38:34)
Yeah.
Daniele Lul (38:48)
To ensure that the narrative of the disabled community is the right one, you know, and it comes from disabled people and it’s not told by people who don’t identify in the disabled community because the negative narrative or the misrepresentation of disabled people in society, you know, like it’s…
Esi Hardy (39:01)
Hmm
Daniele Lul (39:13)
it’s still wrong, like it still portrays us in a negative way. And those ideas are so deeply rooted in our society, you know, it becomes really difficult to shake them off, you know. So it’s really important that the narrative is told by disabled people and that it’s led by disabled people.
And so, you know, I think that lived experiences are really important. And that is not only for the disabled community, you know, that can be for different communities, you know, for black people or for trans people or for, you know, any kind of like marginalised group, you know, we had to take ownership of the narrative that is being said. And so I always found that incredibly important, you know,
for that. ParaPride has launched, we do different activities from events, workshops and panel discussions and talks. And we also recently launched Intersectionality Awareness Week, which is an awareness campaign, because we recognise how important it is to talk about, like we are here, ParaPride,
main intersection of our disability and LGBTQ+, but on top of that, we have other intersecting identities that are part of our lives. And so we wanted to create
a campaign that could, where we could really talk about, you know, being what it’s like to be disabled, you know, to be LGBTQ+ but also, you know, I’m on top of that, I’m a person of colour, you know, I’m, you know, I have different, different intersectionalities. And so, you know, those things added, you know, overlayer intersectionalities. Yeah, I want, those are things that I want to be proud of, that I want to embrace.
But at the same time, recognise that I can also, it impacts my life. I can be discriminated on multiple levels because of those layered intersectionalities. So yeah, we launched intersectionality awareness week. And so we feel very passionate about that because we can tell our lived experiences not just from the disability point of view, but from other points of view.
You know, throughout the week we intersectionality awareness week, by the way, is from in May from the 11th to the 17th of May. And throughout the week, we, you know, we have different, different events that, are panel discussions and partnering with different organisations and different people that, you know, we have one event that is going to be about trans and disability, another one
about LGBTQ+ aging people. So, you know, it’s great to hear about the different experiences of intersectionality and the lived experiences of each speaker. So, yeah, and of course, you know, it comes from intersectionality is associated with how people experience overlapping
forms of discrimination or disadvantage, based on their attributes and how those attributes relate to the systems of oppression in society. So like I said, you can be a disabled person facing different barriers because of course, society isn’t always built to accommodate the needs of disabled people. You can be a person of colour and of course you may encounter discrimination and racism and disadvantages.
You can be an LGBTQ+ person coming across homophobia and transphobia or hate crime because of your orientation or sexual or gender identity and all those multiple discriminations, they can really make life very difficult. But like I said, those identities are making us who we are. We don’t pick and choose them. And we want to be able to…
be proud of them and embrace our differences. At the same time, we want to be treated fairly in society. So that’s what intersectionality awareness week is about, like creating a space to share our experiences, our lived experiences and celebrate diversity and promote understanding and feeling empowered and feeling united as well.
Esi Hardy (43:22)
.
Daniele Lul (43:41)
So yeah, we’re very excited about this. And this is all linked to telling the story from people who have the lived experiences. It’s really, really important.
Esi Hardy (43:50)
And I think you know what, Intersectionality Week really sums up what I love about ParaPride in a nutshell. So it’s not, you know, Daniele and a few people within ParaPride saying we have lived experience, that’s enough, we can tell the story ourselves. It’s about opening it wide to the community to hear from so many different voices and so many different perspectives. And whilst that’s really important to spread the word of how
disability and LGBTQ+ is intersectional. It also empowers that community as well at the same time.
Daniele Lul (44:26)
And we really wanted to, we really wanted to honor, you know, the concept which was developed by Professor Kimberly Crenshaw, who is an American rights advocate and scholar of critical race theory. And, and this, the term of intersectionality has been around for so many years because she developed it. This study was, was done in the late
Esi Hardy (44:48)
Mm.
Daniele Lul (44:48)
80s, think 89 or early 90s, I can’t remember. And we are talking about it more and more recently, we are becoming more aware of it. But I personally have always been very aware, you know, like my sexual orientation, so being a gay person, and also my ethnicity, my ethnic background, these are two
identities that have always been part of me, know, since I was born, you know, even though I may have not been outspoken of, you know, being a gay person for, you know, for many years, you know, it’s always been within me. But, you know, but the disability aspect is something that happened to me later on. And, you know, how those things interact, even though they are part of you,
is really interesting and they’re not always easy to handle, they’re not always easy to live through that. So talking about it and sharing your experiences is really helpful for your journey.
Esi Hardy (45:45)
you
I think it is. it’s, you know, I, I find that when I’m delivering training, as, a disabled, mixed race woman, that, I talk from my lived experience from my intersectionalities and nine times of 10, either in the room itself or afterwards, somebody, at least one person will come up to me and say, thank you for sharing that.
Daniele Lul (45:58)
Thank
Esi Hardy (46:16)
Because that’s really helped me consider where I sit in the intersectionality as well. And people quite often, especially when we’re talking about, or we always talk about disability, and when we talk about disability and invisible impairments and how important it is for people with invisible impairments to feel confident to ask for the support they need, people say, I never thought about it from that perspective before. I’m going to ask my manager
for some help because I thought that my impairment wasn’t as, in quotes, important as somebody else’s. And so I think sharing those lived experiences is so valuable to help others feel empowered that they also have the right to have an equal experience as well.
Daniele Lul (47:00)
Yeah, absolutely.
Esi Hardy (47:01)
And I think it comes through as well, you know, with ParaPride’s events when you have the…
Daniele Lul (47:09)
our largest event is the annual event. So this year we delivered it in March on the 21st of March. That was, you know, that’s always a great experience. It’s so good to see how everyone enjoys that event. You know, it grows every year. It’s an opportunity for us, for our community, you know, to…
Esi Hardy (47:14)
Hmm.
Mm.
Daniele Lul (47:31)
for us to provide a safe space for people to come together, feel included, feel visible, and celebrate our community, you know, like celebrate disability, no pun intended. And so, you know, it’s just so great, you know, to have an opportunity
Esi Hardy (47:46)
Thank you very much.
Daniele Lul (47:56)
to showcase our talent, like the disability talent as well. So we have many performances. We have a line of really great acts, you know, like from comedians to drag artists to burlesque performers to acrobatic performances. You you’ve been part of it pretty much every year, you know, particularly with, you know, we also have the panel discussion and every year we put forward
a conversation that really needs to be put out there. It becomes very interactive because we have the Q &A with the audience and the speakers have so much richness in terms of things to share. Yeah, that’s a part of the event that you’re actively involved in as well, because we end up co-hosting it together most of the time.
And so, and then, you know, we have the other community aspect where we have like community partners coming, you know, setting up their stalls and interacting with the attendees. And it just becomes like this day festival of disability LGBT. And it becomes a great celebration. And every year we do something different, something more. We listen to the community, you know, we get their feedback and we say, okay, let’s try
this differently this year because some people had, you know, like had that experience. So we, and it’s great, you know, it’s a lot of work, but it’s very meaningful and it’s very important and it’s valid, you know. So, yeah, we do that once a year and that is our main event. It’s often promoted and advertised on our social media channels, so if anyone wants to find out more about it, you know, they can head either
over to our website or to our social media and they can find out more of what we do there.
Esi Hardy (49:46)
Cool. So yeah, no, it is a great event. And I wasn’t blowing my own trumpet. I’m not one of the great performers. I co-host the panel with Daniele. Yeah, no, I’m not sure I’d bring anything to the stage. But what I was going to say with that is, you can really tell from the Q &A section of the panel that the audience is quite inspired by what panelists say. It gives people, you know,
kind of that power to feel as though they can share their thoughts and ideas as well. But that leads us really well onto kind of the other really important thing about disability and LGBTQ+ empowerment, which is advocating and activating for our communities. We’ve talked at length really about why this is so important. And I know it was a topic of the
panel discussion at the event this year. Last month, I had on this podcast, Bernie Vincent, who is an activist from the 80s and 70s in London, and she has some great stories to share about her journey through kind of disability activism and why she thinks it’s so important. For me, it’s about kind of
ensuring the community always has a voice and we are always kind of living that kind of mantra, nothing about us without us, by constantly reminding people that we are here and that we should have a say, the first say and the co-productive say in what happens about us and to us all the time. But tell me from your perspective why this is so important.
Daniele Lul (51:22)
Well, you know, it kind of like goes back to, you know, the narrative, you know, controlling the narrative and making sure that we are part of decision making processes and that we know that any change in policy and change in regulations is going to impact us the right way and in a way that it will be benefiting our existence and our
Esi Hardy (51:42)
Mm.
Daniele Lul (51:50)
in different aspects of life. So from access to healthcare, access to work, housing, and all of those things, it’s really important that disabled people are part of the decision-making processes to make sure that change happens for the right reasons and for the right people. And so…
it goes back to lived experiences, you know, like having to share that. And also it’s important because, employment for disabled people isn’t easy. But accessibility in the workplace is something that is incredibly important. So having those jobs and making sure that disabled people
have employment in the right areas and that are able to contribute in the right areas is very important.
Esi Hardy (52:38)
And also you, I agree with you completely and kind of really articulating and honing down on the impact of not doing this in the correct way. So if we don’t have a voice in these conversations, then people are making assumptions about what we need and how we need it. I’ve heard a lot of people, not a lot, but a few people say recently in conversations about activism, oh, I think activism is dead.
Which makes me really angry because I’d say, well, how do you think that any of our groups, marginalised groups got to where we are today? It is because we fought for it ourselves. You know, the disability movement, the civil rights movement, black panther movements, the suffragettes. We all went through so much oppression and so much kind of, what’s the word, danger,
Daniele Lul (53:26)
Yeah.
Esi Hardy (53:33)
in order to get where we are today. And we need to, I think we need to constantly remember that. And the reasons why we have the legislations that we have today is because people put themselves at risk to get it there for us.
Daniele Lul (53:50)
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. No, I couldn’t agree more. You know, it’s so important to… You’re right. What we talked about at that specific event, the annual ParaPride event panel, we specifically talked about the activism and the protesting and protesting safely,
and making sure that there is always a risk to protesting and to activism, but it is a necessity. And particularly for disabled people, because being an activist, it’s really important to be able to protest and be part of those events, but it’s not the only way.
You know, like, especially if you think that is going to impact your safety. And so, you know, you have to think of different ways where you can really be heard and you can lead on an idea and, and, you know, try to change the narrative and try to, you know, to impact the media about, you know, what the cause that we are that we are
Esi Hardy (54:37)
Hmm.
Yeah.
Daniele Lul (55:00)
for, know, that we are protesting for and making sure that you, you know, your contribution is still impactful. So, yeah, it’s really important to be able to share information like that. And particularly in nowadays, you know, like with all what’s going on in the world with the far right movement rising and
and all of that, you know, we don’t want to be left behind and we don’t want to not be a part of things of activism because we are held back from our disability, you that we still want to be heard. So it’s really important to, you know, to find alternatives and continue our activist work.
Esi Hardy (55:46)
It is so
true. And I think that, yeah, I think kind of the marching is really important, but I think you can be an activist in whatever small way. I mean, this morning I was having a conversation with a prospect client and I explained what we did in celebrating disability. And she said, we’re working with more neurodivergence this year. And I said, you know, I know it’s a trade at the moment. There is a conversation about
different disability groups are being split out. So you have neurodivergence, which is in some in somehow different to physical impairment, which is in somehow different to mental health impairment and so on and so forth. But in actual fact, we’re all under the same umbrella of a disability and so I think you can change people’s opinions just by having that conversation. It doesn’t have to be a
an argument, it doesn’t have to be a tense conversation, it’s just a conversation. And I think the work that we both do in celebrating disability and ParaPride is activism. You know, I can’t complete the training session without getting on a soapbox about something. But not in a way that offends anyone or puts anyone on the spot, but really kind of opening up their thought process about what’s happening to us, why we are not
having an equitable opportunity in the workplace. It’s very easy to think cause and effect. The cause is this person isn’t working hard enough. The effect is we can’t hire them. But they’re not looking beyond that. Why isn’t that person perceived to be working hard enough? Is it because they don’t have the right adjustments? Why don’t they have the right adjustments? Is it because there isn’t enough training? Why isn’t there enough training? Because
Daniele Lul (57:19)
Mmm. Yeah.
Esi Hardy (57:31)
resources are being cut to funding for companies, why are resources being cut to funding for companies, and so on and so forth. So it’s about opening up that discussion and helping people see beyond kind of the kind of the blinker vision view. And I think for me, that’s what activism is about. I think The Equality Edit podcast is activism. I think the events that ParaPride holds and the panel discussions are activism. I think that when you go out and deliver talks,
Daniele Lul (57:41)
Yeah.
Esi Hardy (58:00)
That’s activism as well. It doesn’t always have to look the same.
Daniele Lul (58:06)
Yeah, and I think that what you’re doing with The Equality Edit is really good because it creates that space to be able to share those really important things. And you’re absolutely right. It is a great
way of being an activist and just by asking questions and making people reflect on why it’s important to make the changes, whether it’s in the workplace or in your community or any aspect of life.
Esi Hardy (58:45)
Yeah, absolutely. Brilliant. So we’re going to go on to the last section of this episode where we talk about kind of what after this our main conversation, EDI professionals can take from this and take back into their workplace. So our audience are predominantly leaders in the equality, diversity and inclusion space. They could also be in learning development and they could also be in HR.
And then we have another section of listeners who are disabled people themselves, listening to empower themselves and to get some information about what to do next. So what advice would you give leaders creating inclusive workplaces to begin with?
Daniele Lul (59:29)
Well, you know, I’d say employing disabled people is very important. And I have the feeling that a lot of the times, you know, there is resistance to employing disabled people because, you know, our workplace isn’t accessible enough for this, that, the other. And so there is no point in waiting around, you know, until…
you feel that your workplace is accessible enough. You can still employ disabled people and you will be on a journey. You will be on a journey and you will be able to listen to your employees and the same way you listen to any other employee and the same way you want anyone else to feel comfortable enough to be able to do the job that they’re supposed to be doing.
I think that when it comes to recruiting disabled people, there’s always a bit of a resistance for things like that because there isn’t enough knowledge. Disability is such a broad term. There are so many different types of disability. Some are visible, as we know, some are non-visible, some disabilities are more complex than others. I think that there is a bit of stress on not
understanding disability enough, you know, I think that it’s okay, you know, to get things wrong, you know, like as long as the end goal is to ensure that you will impact things differently, you know, that you will make the right change, you know, like by listening
your employees and getting the right feedback and hearing from their personal lived experiences and getting the help from them directly, I think that it’s really important. I think that employing disabled people is very important, it’s very crucial for any workplace moving forward.
Esi Hardy (1:01:27)
I think that’s a really strong message and that idea of kind of you can’t learn how to do it if you don’t start because you learn as you’re going. I think that’s really powerful. So, yeah, I mean, it is I agree with you as well that, you know, it’s not about knowing all the answers. It’s about taking the risk, taking the jump and working together and collaboration. Would you have any advice for disabled people listening?
Daniele Lul (1:01:29)
I’m not going to do it again.
I mean, it’s not like a tough question, but the type of advice that I would give to disabled people is continue believing in yourself. You can do whatever. Life, I know that things can be very difficult. Living in society that isn’t built to accommodate our needs
Esi Hardy (1:02:02)
Mm.
Daniele Lul (1:02:16)
is really hard and it’s very unmotivating and it’s very, you know, like I think that disabled people are very resilient, are incredibly strong. And I think that it’s important not to allow anything in life to change that, you know, to make you think that you’re not valued, you know, that you’re not strong and that you’re not loved and that you’re not, you know, I think that if…
it’s really easy to be influenced by all of these forces and energies that are trying to make you feel that you’re not worthy of being a part of something, being included. think that my advice is just to ignore anything like that. If you have any of these feelings in life, just continue to believe in yourself and…
and then continue to do whatever it is that you’re doing. And things take time. Things change comes with time and with a lot of patience. I just find that I have days where I really feel hopeless. And I just kind of think to myself, just allow today to go, and then tomorrow
is a brand new day and things and often enough, the following day, feel a lot of strong, a lot better to face those difficulties that, previous days of previous times, I feel, you know, I felt that they were, they were difficult and just impossible. I think, you know, like, that’s really my only true advice that I had to give to any other disabled person, you know, particularly people who have acquired disability who find themselves
in life with having to make a lot of change and having to adapt to things completely, you know, differently to what they are used to. That’s really all I can say. I was at the gym the other day and you know, there’s another amputee and every time we run into each other, there’s always like, you know, we get…
Esi Hardy (1:04:09)
Thank
Daniele Lul (1:04:11)
really excited about comparing notes and like sharing. It’s so true. It’s just like you meet another disabled person, you know, and you kind of like feel a bit like, you know, long lost family member that you need to catch up. You know, it’s not the case for everyone, but it really helps you understand that you’re not alone, you know, that other people are.
Esi Hardy (1:04:12)
Yeah, it really is.
Yeah.
No, I know what you mean though. I feel like that as well.
Daniele Lul (1:04:36)
having similar experiences and like, when you and I get together and we can talk about stuff like that, there is an element of comedy that comes to it because you kind of have to laugh at things sometimes. It’s just become so ridiculous, whether it’s other people’s perception about disability or weird comments that they make or things that they say. And it can drag you down sometimes. It can really drain you.
Esi Hardy (1:04:42)
Mmm.
Mm-hmm.
Daniele Lul (1:05:06)
So, you know, we really need to learn how to, yeah, just push that out and continue to believe in ourselves. Really, that is the only advice I can give.
Esi Hardy (1:05:16)
someone who said they don’t have a lot of advice for disabled people, think that advice is really perfect, actually. So brilliant, which leads me on to the next one. Thank you so much. I genuinely think that that was really helpful advice. What would, if you were, think of Daniele back when he was about to go and work in that charity for disabled children, what would Daniele of today tell Daniele now?
sorry, what would Daniele of today tell Daniele of when he was 18?
Daniele Lul (1:05:47)
What would
When I, back then, I would definitely say do it. Do it, you know, that’s gonna be a big step that is going to, you know, that is going to impact your life, you know, and I think that Daniele back then just thought, okay, this is a year, this is 12 months I’m doing this and I’m gonna, you know, I’m gonna enjoy the journey and I’m gonna complete what I’m supposed to be doing mandatory.
And I think back then would think, okay, now this is done, I just leave it back there and I’ll move on and do something else, you know, either continue my studies or, you know, like move to London, things like that. So I think that, you know, back then I didn’t know the impact that that experience would have had in my life, move it fast forward to when I become disabled. So I think what the advice that I’ve given to myself back then is like,
you know, like listen to yourself and do it. I even had some, yeah, I remember like my mum, you know, like who’s incredibly supportive and incredibly proud of everything I do. You know, like back then when I was 18 and I broke the news and I said, like, I’ve been allocated to this charity and it’s charity to support disabled people. And she was like, oh my God, you know, that’s going to be so tough because like,
you know, the realities that you’re going to come across, they’re probably going to impact your mood. You know, they’re going to make you feel depressed and, you know, because we didn’t have any knowledge of disability and particularly an older person, you know, for her is like, oh my God, you know, you’re going to be dragged down into this. And, and even I was, you know, even I was like, come on, mum you know, I think I’ll be okay. Don’t worry. You know, it’s, much better than having to, you know, go and
Esi Hardy (1:07:15)
Yeah.
Yeah.
You know, gang
Daniele Lul (1:07:37)
shoot at things, you know, forward.
And so I think that I definitely tell myself, you know, listen to your gut because
you will, you know, you will make the right choice.
Esi Hardy (1:15:35)
Awesome, thank you, thank you.
Okay, do you have any influences that you can share with us?
Daniele Lul (1:15:42)
Urm so, you know, I was thinking about that and I’d love to say, you know, like to give you like some really good names of people. But I think my main influences is, you know, music. You know, like I listen to music and I get really influenced by that.
Esi Hardy (1:15:58)
You
Daniele Lul (1:16:02)
And I listen to a lot of, you know, like…
people who really contributed to music history, not just to
to music history, but also to, you know, actual history, know, looking back and listening to old soul and jazz and, you know, people like Marlene Shaw, who, you know, who was really singing about, you know, civil rights movements and, you know, back in the 60s and 70s and…
Esi Hardy (1:16:13)
Mm.
Yeah.
Daniele Lul (1:16:36)
I’m really inspired by people like that, by that type of music. I listen to Little Richard. I watched this amazing documentary about Little Richard and how his whole career, he’s been overlooked, but he was the architect of rock and roll and people still believe that it was like Elvis Presley. But people like that created so much change, so powerful.
Esi Hardy (1:16:44)
Mmm.
Daniele Lul (1:17:01)
You know, and he was a black person. He was, you know, he was a gay man. He was closeted. He was out and then was closeted and he was out and then, you know, he was so like outrageous and so great. And he also identified as disabled because he had this disability that impacted his mobility, his walking specifically. You know, none of that ever stopped him. None of it. And he was a force and he was just so
Esi Hardy (1:17:12)
you.
you
Daniele Lul (1:17:26)
you know, like I really am impacted and influenced by people like that, particularly, you know, like black artists and the impact and the contribution that they gave to music and to, you know, change in civil rights movements and things like that. You know, that’s the main thing. And then of course, after that, there are more current people, you know, in life, you know, in,
Yeah, in today’s world, more recent that are very impactful. But when I think about influence, I immediately, it brings me back to music, you know, and that.
Esi Hardy (1:18:04)
I love that, I really love that actually.
Did you see the David Bowie exhibit at the V &A?
Daniele Lul (1:18:12)
I didn’t, didn’t, but I know that you did and, and, and yeah.
Esi Hardy (1:18:15)
Yeah, it was incredible. It was absolutely
incredible. And what I didn’t realise was how much, you know, talking about, you know, how original artists impacts today’s music, how he impacts so much of the music through the decades in all genres was, it was absolutely incredible.
So where can people find out more about you and ParaPride?
Daniele Lul (1:18:40)
Well, we are present on all social media channels. We are on Instagram, we’re on LinkedIn, we are on Facebook, we are on YouTube as well. And of course we have a website. We are in the process of updating our website, but we do have, you know, it is live and you can find out more information about what we do,
and our future projects and so on on those channels. We also have an intersectionality awareness week social media pages, well we’re on Instagram and Facebook and LinkedIn and we also have an IAW website as well which has been newly developed. So yeah, we are present on all of these channels.
And I’m not sure when this will be made available to your audiences, but just as a reminder, Intersectionality Awareness Week this year is the second week of May, so between the 11th and 17th. It doesn’t really matter because we are in the process of pre-recording all of the content and all of the panels. And so those will be made available on our YouTube channel. you know…
Yeah, you can head over to our social media, you can find out more and you can listen and see the events that we do there.
Esi Hardy (1:19:55)
Awesome. My mathematical brain is non-existent anyway. So I can’t calculate quick enough when this, whether this episode will be out before, during, or just after, but it will be soonish after, without me calculating, or definitely be in May, 2026. But we will put all those links in the show notes, the links to the intersectionality awareness week website, or the events.
The ParaPride website and all the social media things as well. And so I just want to say thank you so much, Daniele. I’ve so enjoyed this conversation. I’ve been looking forward to it. So thank you very much for taking the time to talk to me today. And thank you very much, everyone again for tuning into another episode of The Equality Edit. As I always like to say, don’t forget to like and subscribe,
Daniele Lul (1:20:32)
Thank you.
Esi Hardy (1:20:46)
even if you’re on Spotify, you can still do the same. And if you have any ideas of topics you would like us to discuss, let us know either in the comments or send us an email or something, because that can give us inspiration for what we can talk about in the future. But thank you very much and look forward to seeing you for another episode. Bye.